The documentary Fog of War depicts the life of former Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara. His eleven lessons are used as guidelines in describing his experiences in life, which include: growing up during World War I, being a part of the Cuban Missile Crisis, his involvement in World War II, and his actions of the Vietnam War. While McNamara does not directly say that this film is a film to rationalize his actions while Secretary of Defense, it seems this way particularly with the last five lessons. This film is a documentary to rationalize and apologize for his actions as his life is coming to an end.
McNamara explains that these eleven lessons are rules that are used when making decisions about World War II and the Vietnam War. Although this film is a rationalization of his actions, he does admit that he did make some wrong decisions. The first six lessons – empathize with the enemy, rationality will not save us, there is something beyond oneself, maximize efficiency, proportionality should be a guideline in war, and get data – are all rules for life and war. The seventh lesson, belief and seeing are both often wrong, is where the major shift occurs. At this lesson and beyond, he shifts to rationalizing his actions and almost defending everything he says rather than giving rules for war and life as in the previous six lessons.
The fifth lesson is not a shift in ideas, but it is a shift in tone. Proportionality should be a guideline in war is the fifth lesson, and McNamara uses it to discuss the morality of war; saying that he would rather use a bomb and kill innocent people then send in his own soldiers across the sea to fight. Citing proportionality as a justification to killing so many innocent people in Vietnam rather than focusing on the military personnel. McNamara said that proportionality was about hurting the enemy the most, not necessarily killing the most military soldiers; killing civilians was hurting the enemy the most.
This film is a film in defense of McNamara’s actions as Secretary of Defense, and he does this through his eleven life lessons, but his rationalizations are questioned; particularly those in reference to Agent Orange. Regardless, McNamara uses this film as a way to justify his actions to the public because war is a fog, so complex that humans cannot understand it clearly.
Saturday, April 24, 2010
Thursday, April 22, 2010
Blog 12 TJM
The documentary Fog of War brings us the life and lessons of former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara. The film is angled around the decisions he made during the Vietnam War. To me the whole film feels as though he is trying to rationalize the decisions he made during that time. An example of his rationalizations is the firebombing of Tokyo. The decision led to the death of over 100,000 Japanese, but McNamara said it was one of those decisions made in the "Fog of War." He also goes on to say that if America had lost the war they would have been tried as war criminals because the bombing was essentially acts of war, nonetheless they needed to be done to save American lives.
McNamara explains his eleven points as guidelines he follows. In 2-4, rationality will not save us, there's something beyond oneself, and maximize efficiency, we see life lessons. These three lesson seem to be points that one could use in everyday life. We see the first shift as he moves on to lessons 5-8. These lessons deal with warfare, especially number 5, proportionality should be a guideline in war. Its obvious that he didn't follow his own lesson when he ordered the bombing of Tokyo. The second shift in his reasoning comes in the last three, 9-11. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil, never say never, and you cant change human nature, all seem to deal with rationalizations. It seems to me that McNamara is rationalizing with himself that he could not help the decisions he made, they had to be done.
Hindsight seems to play a big role in this documentary as well. McNamara looks back on events and tells of his decisions, knowing he cannot change them but looking back seeing a new light. He also spoke of the Fog of War. The decisions made at the time were all made in a time when all you could count on was the fact that no matter what decision was made lives were going to be lost. Through the whole interview McNamara seemingly tries to repent for the thing that he did and the decisions that were made that cost hundreds of thousands of lives in the Vietnam War.
McNamara explains his eleven points as guidelines he follows. In 2-4, rationality will not save us, there's something beyond oneself, and maximize efficiency, we see life lessons. These three lesson seem to be points that one could use in everyday life. We see the first shift as he moves on to lessons 5-8. These lessons deal with warfare, especially number 5, proportionality should be a guideline in war. Its obvious that he didn't follow his own lesson when he ordered the bombing of Tokyo. The second shift in his reasoning comes in the last three, 9-11. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil, never say never, and you cant change human nature, all seem to deal with rationalizations. It seems to me that McNamara is rationalizing with himself that he could not help the decisions he made, they had to be done.
Hindsight seems to play a big role in this documentary as well. McNamara looks back on events and tells of his decisions, knowing he cannot change them but looking back seeing a new light. He also spoke of the Fog of War. The decisions made at the time were all made in a time when all you could count on was the fact that no matter what decision was made lives were going to be lost. Through the whole interview McNamara seemingly tries to repent for the thing that he did and the decisions that were made that cost hundreds of thousands of lives in the Vietnam War.
Blog 12 ARB
In The Fog of War Robert McNamara explains to viewers his life experiences as the Secretary of Defense during the Cold War, Cuban Missile Crisis, and part of Vietnam, also his involvement in WWII and how he was the first ever president of the Ford Motor Company who wasn't part of the family. This film explains 11 rules about war and gives reason why some people make the decisions they do while in combat.
The 11 Rules are:
1. Empathize with the enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond oneself
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
McNamara explains to us that these rules can and are used when people make war decisions such as dropping the atomic bomb in world war two or using agent orange in Vietnam, but he does acknowledge we have made some wrong decisions. One idea that he brings up is proportionality which was not seen during the fire bombing of Tokyo. McNamara argues that proportionality should be part of war so that we don't kill 100,000 women and children and men in one night. We shouldn't be killing innocent people in order to win the war. I is clear the McNamara used these guidelines and he suggests that everyone should use them, but really main guidelines are the first six rules as they specifically pertain to actions in the war and the last five rules is where we see a shift in McNamara's ideas because these five rules pertain more to human nature and explaining why people make the decisions that they do and there isn't much you can do to change it but trying to limit it or control it is what the first six rules do.
The 11 Rules are:
1. Empathize with the enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond oneself
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
McNamara explains to us that these rules can and are used when people make war decisions such as dropping the atomic bomb in world war two or using agent orange in Vietnam, but he does acknowledge we have made some wrong decisions. One idea that he brings up is proportionality which was not seen during the fire bombing of Tokyo. McNamara argues that proportionality should be part of war so that we don't kill 100,000 women and children and men in one night. We shouldn't be killing innocent people in order to win the war. I is clear the McNamara used these guidelines and he suggests that everyone should use them, but really main guidelines are the first six rules as they specifically pertain to actions in the war and the last five rules is where we see a shift in McNamara's ideas because these five rules pertain more to human nature and explaining why people make the decisions that they do and there isn't much you can do to change it but trying to limit it or control it is what the first six rules do.
Wednesday, April 21, 2010
Blog 12 CG
The Fog Of War is a documentary style film telling the story of Robert McNamara, former US Secretary of Defense. He talks about his experiences as president of Ford Motor Company during both World Wars and the Cuban Missle Crisis. These unforgettable events shaped his life. They taught him how to make choices in crisis situations, how to meet lifes challenges. He gives a list of eleven things that his lifes experience has brought him.
1. Empathize with the enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond oneself
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
Why bother making a set of rules anyways?I think McNamara used it as a way to explain his reasoning for his actions. I think he may feel the need to apologize to people for things that happened in the war during his time. He may feel responsible because he had such influence. Also, he was brought under a good amount of scrutiny on some of his decisions, and I think this may be his clairification or the explanation of his logic.
I think there are two definite idea shifts, making three idea groups. The first of the groups is the first three lessons. They all speak to the humanity side of the audience. Number three even brings up religious aspects, which is a huge part of human culture. The second group consists of lessons four through six. This group is very mechanical, basic, definite. "Maximize efficiency" seems almost robotic. The third and final group is made up of lessons seven through eleven. All these lessons were big picture ideas. They were more philosophical. For example, rule number nine brings up the idea of good vs evil. Also, the final lesson mentions human nature and change, two hot philosophical topics.
1. Empathize with the enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond oneself
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
Why bother making a set of rules anyways?I think McNamara used it as a way to explain his reasoning for his actions. I think he may feel the need to apologize to people for things that happened in the war during his time. He may feel responsible because he had such influence. Also, he was brought under a good amount of scrutiny on some of his decisions, and I think this may be his clairification or the explanation of his logic.
I think there are two definite idea shifts, making three idea groups. The first of the groups is the first three lessons. They all speak to the humanity side of the audience. Number three even brings up religious aspects, which is a huge part of human culture. The second group consists of lessons four through six. This group is very mechanical, basic, definite. "Maximize efficiency" seems almost robotic. The third and final group is made up of lessons seven through eleven. All these lessons were big picture ideas. They were more philosophical. For example, rule number nine brings up the idea of good vs evil. Also, the final lesson mentions human nature and change, two hot philosophical topics.
Blog#12:FoW-RGV
Through the interviews portrayed in Fog of War, Robert McNamara tells of some of the most significant parts of his life, and he describes how these moments lead into his participation in the Vietnam War as Secretary of Defense. McNamara discusses his education, his marriage, his military experience, and his job experience after college before introducing his role in the government and the topic of the war. The descriptions he offers of his earlier life give the audience background on the unfamiliar areas of his personal life as well as the setting in which he grew up and lived the majority of his life.
The reason for Robert McNamara's presence in the film is the fulfillment of his desire to defend his actions as Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam War. More than thirty years after the end of the war, most people recognize that a considerable amount of corruption was present within the US government at the time. It has become evident as time has progressed that much was kept from the American people in regard to the status of the war and the accomplishment of American troops. When dealing with this subject, two events that immediately come to mind are the My Lai massacre and the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Now that the public has been made aware of much of what truly took place in Vietnam, many people see numerous negative outcomes of the United States' participation in the war. This perspective has caused many people to wonder why American involved itself in this war and what positive purpose did it serve.
In attempt to justify his actions as Secretary of Defense, McNamara attempts to present his own perspective through his interviews in Fog of War. He explains that not all the knowledge that is available to the public now was available to him during the war. McNamara also attempts to portray his course of action as the right, ethical way of going about things given the circumstances he was in and the stress he was under. His interviews in this documentary are essentially composed of his personal rationalizations about his actions that aim to downplay the stark reality of the war and remove personal guilt that he still carries.
McNamara composes a list of eleven lessons that can be learned from his life experiences. There is a shift in the tone of these lessons after the first three lessons. The first three lessons, "empathize with your enemy, "rationality will not save us," and "there's something beyond one's self," deal with conceptual, ethical issues that one can encounter during life. He advises the audience to view problems from other perspectives in order to make good, moral decisions because of responsibilities people have to themselves and society. On the other hand, the next three lessons, "maximize efficiency," proportionality should be a guideline in war," and "get the data," are more concerned with quantitative, factual topics. In the documentary, numerous images of statistics are shown within these three lessons as to demonstrate the numbers used by government officials in wartime. These lessons also seem to deal with effective ways of waging war successfully. For example, McNamara discusses the necessity of firebombing 100,000 civilians despite its unethical nature. This lesson is an obvious representation of the self-contradiction present in McNamara's fourth, fifth, and sixth lessons because an argument cannot be made that the United States empathized with its enemy through its merciless killing of 100,000 noncombatants.
The reason for Robert McNamara's presence in the film is the fulfillment of his desire to defend his actions as Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam War. More than thirty years after the end of the war, most people recognize that a considerable amount of corruption was present within the US government at the time. It has become evident as time has progressed that much was kept from the American people in regard to the status of the war and the accomplishment of American troops. When dealing with this subject, two events that immediately come to mind are the My Lai massacre and the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Now that the public has been made aware of much of what truly took place in Vietnam, many people see numerous negative outcomes of the United States' participation in the war. This perspective has caused many people to wonder why American involved itself in this war and what positive purpose did it serve.
In attempt to justify his actions as Secretary of Defense, McNamara attempts to present his own perspective through his interviews in Fog of War. He explains that not all the knowledge that is available to the public now was available to him during the war. McNamara also attempts to portray his course of action as the right, ethical way of going about things given the circumstances he was in and the stress he was under. His interviews in this documentary are essentially composed of his personal rationalizations about his actions that aim to downplay the stark reality of the war and remove personal guilt that he still carries.
McNamara composes a list of eleven lessons that can be learned from his life experiences. There is a shift in the tone of these lessons after the first three lessons. The first three lessons, "empathize with your enemy, "rationality will not save us," and "there's something beyond one's self," deal with conceptual, ethical issues that one can encounter during life. He advises the audience to view problems from other perspectives in order to make good, moral decisions because of responsibilities people have to themselves and society. On the other hand, the next three lessons, "maximize efficiency," proportionality should be a guideline in war," and "get the data," are more concerned with quantitative, factual topics. In the documentary, numerous images of statistics are shown within these three lessons as to demonstrate the numbers used by government officials in wartime. These lessons also seem to deal with effective ways of waging war successfully. For example, McNamara discusses the necessity of firebombing 100,000 civilians despite its unethical nature. This lesson is an obvious representation of the self-contradiction present in McNamara's fourth, fifth, and sixth lessons because an argument cannot be made that the United States empathized with its enemy through its merciless killing of 100,000 noncombatants.
Blog #12 AEE
Fog of War, a film by Errol Morris, offers an alternative view to the harshly critiqued decisions involving foreign wars and tragic bombings. It is an hour and half long documentary featuring Robert McNamara, Secretary of Defense under Linden B. Johnson and JFK, who played arguably the most crucial role in making decisions concerning the Vietnam War as well as WWII bombings. The voices of the solders and the protestors overrule the voices of the politicians behind the decisions. McNamara is a statistical guy whose job sometimes demanded he calculate out how to cause the most destruction to a company. In this film McNamara speaks for all the politicians as he speaks to explain, justify and rationalize war decisions of the mid 20th century.
McNamara was only scheduled to be interviewed initially for a hour long special, but his interview transformed into an eight hour conversation. This film was made first of all because the topic was interesting. McNamara offers an alternative prospective on a highly controversial topic. Looking just at the initial interview that turned into an 8-hour conversation, it is clear that there is a lot to be exposed about these decisions. McNamara agreed to make this film because he was given almost two hours to talk through and explain things like the Cuban Missile Crisis and Agent Orange. Morris decided to make the documentary so that the viewers could discover the philosophy within the minds of the politicians that they harshly critique. Together they open up the viewer to a new outlook and whole new set of questions to ask regarding the “shoulds” of war. “What makes it moral if you win but immoral if you lose?” The film exposes the conflicts of interests and the double standards which politicians have to sort through to find what they reasonably feel is the best solution. I don’t believe though that the film is meant to justify the actions of war-time criminals (and arguably it doesn’t justify them) but rather give voice to an area that isn’t often heard first hand. Morris is also looking to make a statement about the uncertainty of right and wrong. By showing the viewer scenes like a collection of McNamara’s authorizing signatures, he is accentuating the blame that is often placed on the ex-secretary of defense. He does this not to put blame on McNamara but rather to bring to light the difficulty of justification.
McNamara battles through a lot of different emotions during the lengthy interview. Initially it seems as though he is presenting the logical, numerical side of the war-decisions. Statistics and equations which prove that, by some standard, the mass killings are okay. During the beginning we see lessons like #4 “Maximize Efficiency”. Shortly after though his point seems to get confused this is because he is stuck between pride, rationalization, guilt and denial. When he enters in Lesson # 7 “Belief and seeing are often both wrong”, and more importantly the Vietnam War he begins to tangent a bit. The reality that data isn’t 100% is exposed and therefore the platform behind all the violent war decisions is weakened. From here on McNamara seems to explain the war as it applies in life. The war truths become war-related life lessons, such as Lesson 10 “Never say Never”.
McNamara was only scheduled to be interviewed initially for a hour long special, but his interview transformed into an eight hour conversation. This film was made first of all because the topic was interesting. McNamara offers an alternative prospective on a highly controversial topic. Looking just at the initial interview that turned into an 8-hour conversation, it is clear that there is a lot to be exposed about these decisions. McNamara agreed to make this film because he was given almost two hours to talk through and explain things like the Cuban Missile Crisis and Agent Orange. Morris decided to make the documentary so that the viewers could discover the philosophy within the minds of the politicians that they harshly critique. Together they open up the viewer to a new outlook and whole new set of questions to ask regarding the “shoulds” of war. “What makes it moral if you win but immoral if you lose?” The film exposes the conflicts of interests and the double standards which politicians have to sort through to find what they reasonably feel is the best solution. I don’t believe though that the film is meant to justify the actions of war-time criminals (and arguably it doesn’t justify them) but rather give voice to an area that isn’t often heard first hand. Morris is also looking to make a statement about the uncertainty of right and wrong. By showing the viewer scenes like a collection of McNamara’s authorizing signatures, he is accentuating the blame that is often placed on the ex-secretary of defense. He does this not to put blame on McNamara but rather to bring to light the difficulty of justification.
McNamara battles through a lot of different emotions during the lengthy interview. Initially it seems as though he is presenting the logical, numerical side of the war-decisions. Statistics and equations which prove that, by some standard, the mass killings are okay. During the beginning we see lessons like #4 “Maximize Efficiency”. Shortly after though his point seems to get confused this is because he is stuck between pride, rationalization, guilt and denial. When he enters in Lesson # 7 “Belief and seeing are often both wrong”, and more importantly the Vietnam War he begins to tangent a bit. The reality that data isn’t 100% is exposed and therefore the platform behind all the violent war decisions is weakened. From here on McNamara seems to explain the war as it applies in life. The war truths become war-related life lessons, such as Lesson 10 “Never say Never”.
Blog 12 MMW
The documentary The Fog of War is a film about a former US Secretary of Defense, Robert S. McNamara. McNamara discusses some of his experiences from childhood in World War II, The Cuban Missile Crisis, Working at the Ford Motor Company and the Vietnam War. This movie is broken up into 11 lessons that McNamara teaches. All of these lessons relate to war but can also be applied to real life.
The Eleven Lessons:
1. Empathize with your enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond one's self.
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
I believe that McNamara’s reasoning behind the film is to give an explanation to the actions he took in terms of the Vietnam War.
There is a shift in the lessons after lesson 5. The first five mostly pertain to war and how to go about it successfully. They are more like rules than lessons. They speak of fighting for ones country and realizing what you are there to do. Then next set of rules is a more general set of rules. It is about life in general. Lessons 7,8,and 10 are more mental lessons to live by. They are guidelines one must follow in order to stay sane throughout war.
The Eleven Lessons:
1. Empathize with your enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond one's self.
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
I believe that McNamara’s reasoning behind the film is to give an explanation to the actions he took in terms of the Vietnam War.
There is a shift in the lessons after lesson 5. The first five mostly pertain to war and how to go about it successfully. They are more like rules than lessons. They speak of fighting for ones country and realizing what you are there to do. Then next set of rules is a more general set of rules. It is about life in general. Lessons 7,8,and 10 are more mental lessons to live by. They are guidelines one must follow in order to stay sane throughout war.
Blog 12 SN
In the film Fog of War, McNamara talks about the Vietnam War and some of the decisions that he had to make during that time period. In the film, he talks about working during World War II, for the Ford Motor Company and during the Cuban Missile Crisis. During World War II, he talks about use of the Atomic Bomb, and how they could have been in deep trouble had they lost the war. Also, this leads to rule number 5 because sometimes there is no need to go overboard when it comes to sending a message. Often times in war many people are unnecessarily killed when less can be killed in order to send the same message. Also, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, he explains how no one was thinking clearly, which led to a very close brink of nuclear war. Most of all, it seems as though McNamara is trying to get people to understand his thought process before the Vietnam War and why it turned out the way it did. Many of his experiences before the Vietnam War led to some rash decisions like Tokyo.
The point at which the movie’s point of view changes is the 6th lesson. The first six lessons are more about war and the way in which to go about it. It seems to talk about fighting for your country and remembering that this war is bigger than just yourself. You want to work as one large team in order to be the best you can be as a military unit. Then after the 6th lesson, it goes to a more personal level. Some of them, like 7, 8, and 10 have to do with the mental aspect of war. Many times, war will mess with your mind, but these lessons must be learned in order to be successful. So, the lessons seem to rank from a larger level to a lower level. Whether these are ranked in importance is unclear, but it seems this way.
The point at which the movie’s point of view changes is the 6th lesson. The first six lessons are more about war and the way in which to go about it. It seems to talk about fighting for your country and remembering that this war is bigger than just yourself. You want to work as one large team in order to be the best you can be as a military unit. Then after the 6th lesson, it goes to a more personal level. Some of them, like 7, 8, and 10 have to do with the mental aspect of war. Many times, war will mess with your mind, but these lessons must be learned in order to be successful. So, the lessons seem to rank from a larger level to a lower level. Whether these are ranked in importance is unclear, but it seems this way.
BLOG 12
The film Fog of War by Morris is a documentary about the Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara. McNamara was involved in many American events in his life time and he speaks about his participation concerning World War II. He was the executive of Ford Motor Company. He narrates the story of the Vietnam War and talks about his eleven lessons that can relate to everyday life.
1. Empathize with your enemy
2. Rationality will not save us
3. There's something beyond one's self
4. Maximize efficiency
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in the war
6. Get the data
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong
8. Be prepared to re examine your reasoning
9. In order to good, you may need to engage in evil
10. Never say never
11. You cant change human nature
McNamara uses these lessons to justify and back up things that he does and says. He starts to talk about alot of the war in the beginning and lessons 1,4,5, and 6 have to do with the Vietnam War. He regrets the war but he also shows how he is morally affected by it. He shows his perspectives and shows the side of the government compared to the in country perspective. McNamara is very honest in the film. He shows death totals and graphic images. He talks about how soldiers should be honest with themselves and he admits on the mistakes that he made within the war. He admits that America didnt know how to handle this war and his job was to advice the president of foreign affairs but considers he didnt do a great job at that. His 11 ideas did not only relate to this war but all wars and how they could be affected.
1. Empathize with your enemy
2. Rationality will not save us
3. There's something beyond one's self
4. Maximize efficiency
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in the war
6. Get the data
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong
8. Be prepared to re examine your reasoning
9. In order to good, you may need to engage in evil
10. Never say never
11. You cant change human nature
McNamara uses these lessons to justify and back up things that he does and says. He starts to talk about alot of the war in the beginning and lessons 1,4,5, and 6 have to do with the Vietnam War. He regrets the war but he also shows how he is morally affected by it. He shows his perspectives and shows the side of the government compared to the in country perspective. McNamara is very honest in the film. He shows death totals and graphic images. He talks about how soldiers should be honest with themselves and he admits on the mistakes that he made within the war. He admits that America didnt know how to handle this war and his job was to advice the president of foreign affairs but considers he didnt do a great job at that. His 11 ideas did not only relate to this war but all wars and how they could be affected.
Blog 12 FY
The Fog of War is a documentary style film that chronicles the life and beliefs of former secretary of defense Robert McNamara. The movie uses old footage and recent interviews to depict the thought process of McNamara, particularly during the Vietnam war. I think in making this movie McNamara hoped to share his thought process with the American public. Its clear from the movie that he has a very polarized public opinion. There were scenes where he was called brilliant and there were some people who believed "he was a son of a bitch". I think he believed that many people judged him before understanding all the facts, and his goal in making this movie was probably to better inform the public about himself and the presidents he served under. In an ironic way, I think he wanted his opponents to follow his first rule of war which was "Empathise with your enemy".
Through the medium of film McNamara tried to project just how difficult his terms in office were. In the movie he said that although its easy to point out the mistakes the administration made in hindsight it was much more difficult back then. He made his decisions with the information he had available, and he says some times the Johnson administration did the wrong thing. McNamara is portrayed as a very intelligent guy in the film, he was top of his class and graduated from Harvard; however the war in Vietnam still failed despite the judgment of many geniuses.
I also think the movie tried to portray the stark contrast between data and real life. There were countless images in the film of collections of data and charts. I think this was purposely added to show that to the people making decisions war is all about numbers. They may be able to calculate the chance of success, but they can never feel what its like to actually be out there fighting. I think that is why presidential advisers were so optimistic going into Vietnam. The movie shows that the Americans believed that once our marines were sent in Vietnam would be in for hell. On paper it might seem like the US had a undebateble advantage, but things like dedication are impossible to measure. As the former Vietnamese minister once said to McNamara they were "prepared to fight to the last soldier". In the movie McNamara tried to show that their decisions were based around this data that the administration trusted.
I think that the ideas most shifted around lesson #6. This is when he started talking about getting the proper data, and I thought this was most applicable to his own life. Using the lesson I think he showed once again that getting accurate is very difficult, especially in times of war. Although he tried to gather all the necessary data much of it was subjective and thus invalid. For example when going into the war he said the US believed that the Vietnamese had attacked American naval vessels twice. However, this was later proven to be false. The guy detecting the missiles on sonar misinterpreted the information out of nervousness. Despite his error the data was still used to make the fatal decision to wage war against Vietnam. In this way I think McNamara stressed gathering accurate data from his own experiences. The next lessons are very self critical. The rest of the lessons are about true human nature and examine what constitutes an evil act. McNamara believes that to accomplish a goal for the greater good a person must sometimes follow a path of evil. I think this is how he viewed many of his decisions. Although he believed himself to be a moral person, many of his actions were evil and led to death and destruction. In one part of the film he even says that, had America lost the war to Japan, he could have easily been tried as a war criminal.
Through the medium of film McNamara tried to project just how difficult his terms in office were. In the movie he said that although its easy to point out the mistakes the administration made in hindsight it was much more difficult back then. He made his decisions with the information he had available, and he says some times the Johnson administration did the wrong thing. McNamara is portrayed as a very intelligent guy in the film, he was top of his class and graduated from Harvard; however the war in Vietnam still failed despite the judgment of many geniuses.
I also think the movie tried to portray the stark contrast between data and real life. There were countless images in the film of collections of data and charts. I think this was purposely added to show that to the people making decisions war is all about numbers. They may be able to calculate the chance of success, but they can never feel what its like to actually be out there fighting. I think that is why presidential advisers were so optimistic going into Vietnam. The movie shows that the Americans believed that once our marines were sent in Vietnam would be in for hell. On paper it might seem like the US had a undebateble advantage, but things like dedication are impossible to measure. As the former Vietnamese minister once said to McNamara they were "prepared to fight to the last soldier". In the movie McNamara tried to show that their decisions were based around this data that the administration trusted.
I think that the ideas most shifted around lesson #6. This is when he started talking about getting the proper data, and I thought this was most applicable to his own life. Using the lesson I think he showed once again that getting accurate is very difficult, especially in times of war. Although he tried to gather all the necessary data much of it was subjective and thus invalid. For example when going into the war he said the US believed that the Vietnamese had attacked American naval vessels twice. However, this was later proven to be false. The guy detecting the missiles on sonar misinterpreted the information out of nervousness. Despite his error the data was still used to make the fatal decision to wage war against Vietnam. In this way I think McNamara stressed gathering accurate data from his own experiences. The next lessons are very self critical. The rest of the lessons are about true human nature and examine what constitutes an evil act. McNamara believes that to accomplish a goal for the greater good a person must sometimes follow a path of evil. I think this is how he viewed many of his decisions. Although he believed himself to be a moral person, many of his actions were evil and led to death and destruction. In one part of the film he even says that, had America lost the war to Japan, he could have easily been tried as a war criminal.
Blog 12 ABM
The Fog of War is a movie that details the life of Secratary of Defense Robert Macnamera. It shows how critical events he lived through such as both world wars, the Cuban Missle Crisis, being president of the Ford Motor Company and Vietnam shaped his life and his policies while he was acting as the Secratary of Defense. In the movie Macnamera highlighted 11 points that he used to guide his desision making during times of crisis.
I noticed that the first five points that were more applicable to soldiers and the next six seemed to be more applicable to commanders. The first point is to empathize with your enemy. This is something that all soldiers should do. This prevents horrific acts such as the My Lai masacar. War crimes would drop dramatically and war would be more humane if soldiers treated the enemy like human beings and not just animals that can be tortured, beaten and put down. The second point is another important point for a soldier to know. They cannot always rely on rationality to save them especially in times of war. As we have learned from the books we have read everything is permitted in war and what soldiers thought was right could be wrong and vise versa. Soldiers need to approach each situation differently and think outside of the box to survive. The third point is there is something beyond ones self. This is another great point for a soldier to know. Every action that they make has consiquenses that effect many more people then just them. Every enemy they kill affects the family of the dead soldier back home. Every airstrike they call in could kill hundreds of innocents. Soldiers need to consider the consiquences of their actions at all times during battle. The fourth point is maximizing efficiency. One thing that occured during Vietnam was extreme waste. Soldiers wasted everything from ammunition to time by cutting corners and treating the war like a vacation. Soldiers need to be cool and do their jobs and missions or they will surely fail as they did in Vietnam. War is not a joke and something to be taken lightly. The final point that seems to apply to soldiers that Macnamera made while he was a soldier is keep in mind proportionality. During war soldiers should not be excessive in the damage they cause. This will often cause civilians to turn against and hate them. Also, proportionality will reduce waste and increase efficiency.
The final six points seem to be formed after he became a commander and Secratary of Defense. Point six is to get the data. This is something that command needs to do efficiently. If they do not know the enemy and its positions, strength and how it is supplied and its strategy they cannot win. It seems that in Vietnam this rule was broken because the United States greatly underestimated the enemy. The next point is belief and seeing are both wrong. This point is another point inreference to the Vietnam war and seems to try and explain what went wrong. Despite the high body counts and the fact that the United States seemed to be pushing the North Vietnamese back they still managed to lose the war. The reports were grossly over estimated and contradicted what was actually going on in country. Number eight is an excellent point and possibly one of the ones that Macnamera focuses on when he discusses his regrets of the war. Number nine is be prepared to rethink your reasoning. Many of the generals were convinced that there was no way that America could lose the war. They also employed battle strategies that worked in previous wars such as World War 2 and the Korean War thinking that the strategies that won those wars would work in Vietnam two. They failed to take into account the terrain, enemy and climate differences. Towards then end Macnamera began reavaluating the battle stragies and eventually realized that the war was futile and that America had no business being there. Number nine is it is necessary to commit evil acts to do good. This is saying war is a necessay evil and that during war evils like murdering occur so that innocents are protected. This also justifies the dropping of agent orange. Even Macnamera admits that he knew it would cause a lot of damage but at the time it was worth the damage. Later he retracts that statement because of all the lasting effects that it caused.
This film seemed to be largely and explanation of Macnamera's thought process for his actions. Also, the second half of the movie seemed to be an apology for some of the actions in the Vietnam war.
I noticed that the first five points that were more applicable to soldiers and the next six seemed to be more applicable to commanders. The first point is to empathize with your enemy. This is something that all soldiers should do. This prevents horrific acts such as the My Lai masacar. War crimes would drop dramatically and war would be more humane if soldiers treated the enemy like human beings and not just animals that can be tortured, beaten and put down. The second point is another important point for a soldier to know. They cannot always rely on rationality to save them especially in times of war. As we have learned from the books we have read everything is permitted in war and what soldiers thought was right could be wrong and vise versa. Soldiers need to approach each situation differently and think outside of the box to survive. The third point is there is something beyond ones self. This is another great point for a soldier to know. Every action that they make has consiquenses that effect many more people then just them. Every enemy they kill affects the family of the dead soldier back home. Every airstrike they call in could kill hundreds of innocents. Soldiers need to consider the consiquences of their actions at all times during battle. The fourth point is maximizing efficiency. One thing that occured during Vietnam was extreme waste. Soldiers wasted everything from ammunition to time by cutting corners and treating the war like a vacation. Soldiers need to be cool and do their jobs and missions or they will surely fail as they did in Vietnam. War is not a joke and something to be taken lightly. The final point that seems to apply to soldiers that Macnamera made while he was a soldier is keep in mind proportionality. During war soldiers should not be excessive in the damage they cause. This will often cause civilians to turn against and hate them. Also, proportionality will reduce waste and increase efficiency.
The final six points seem to be formed after he became a commander and Secratary of Defense. Point six is to get the data. This is something that command needs to do efficiently. If they do not know the enemy and its positions, strength and how it is supplied and its strategy they cannot win. It seems that in Vietnam this rule was broken because the United States greatly underestimated the enemy. The next point is belief and seeing are both wrong. This point is another point inreference to the Vietnam war and seems to try and explain what went wrong. Despite the high body counts and the fact that the United States seemed to be pushing the North Vietnamese back they still managed to lose the war. The reports were grossly over estimated and contradicted what was actually going on in country. Number eight is an excellent point and possibly one of the ones that Macnamera focuses on when he discusses his regrets of the war. Number nine is be prepared to rethink your reasoning. Many of the generals were convinced that there was no way that America could lose the war. They also employed battle strategies that worked in previous wars such as World War 2 and the Korean War thinking that the strategies that won those wars would work in Vietnam two. They failed to take into account the terrain, enemy and climate differences. Towards then end Macnamera began reavaluating the battle stragies and eventually realized that the war was futile and that America had no business being there. Number nine is it is necessary to commit evil acts to do good. This is saying war is a necessay evil and that during war evils like murdering occur so that innocents are protected. This also justifies the dropping of agent orange. Even Macnamera admits that he knew it would cause a lot of damage but at the time it was worth the damage. Later he retracts that statement because of all the lasting effects that it caused.
This film seemed to be largely and explanation of Macnamera's thought process for his actions. Also, the second half of the movie seemed to be an apology for some of the actions in the Vietnam war.
Blog 12 AKB
The film Fog of War features former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara. In this documentary, McNamara, at age 85, attempts to explain and justify his actions in war, namely the Vietnam War. He understands that no matter what he says, he will always be criticized, yet he makes this film in order to give a clearer depiction of what was going on in America at the time. Through the film, he also wishes to prove how the Vietnam War was wrong. He provides the audience with numerous examples of what went wrong in the war. For example, killing was not minimized, but rather consisted of many more deaths than were necessary. Also, McNamara describes how even America's own allies did not agree with their actions in Vietnam. He asserts that when this is true, then America should "reexamine" its initiatives. He also discusses how he left his office under President Lyndon B. Johnson, after having served under President John F. Kennedy. McNamara urged Johnson to pull out of Vietnam, but Johnson was adament about staying in the war.
There is a point in McNamara's lessons when the ideas shift, which is when he goes from giving lessons about life in general, to giving lessons about war. Lesson #4, which is to "Maximize efficiency," and Lesson #5 is "Proportionality should be a guideline in war." During these lessons, McNamara begins going into detail about the deaths inflicted by Americans on their enemies. In one instance, American soldiers killed 100,000 people in Tokyo in order to get ahead in the war. The idea was to maximize deaths in order to make weakening the enemy more efficient. He argues that there was little proportionality in these killings, and he asserts that America should have tried harder to minimize deaths. He also argues that whether or not the U.S. won the war, soldiers' actions would have been immoral either way.
At around Lesson #7, which is "Belief and seeing are both often wrong," McNamara goes into discussion about the Vietnam War, specifically. He says that the American government and the military leaders who were for the war saw what they wanted to believe. For example, President Johnson urged on fighting and involvement in Vietnam, drawing out the inevitable loss for America. He also asserts that "You can't change human nature," which is his 11th Lesson. What he means by this is that humans will always be prone to war and fighting, but he urges people to minimize war when faced with it. His belief that the war was an unjust one, and that America should have come out of it much earlier, was the main reason for why he resigned during the Johnson Administration.
There is a point in McNamara's lessons when the ideas shift, which is when he goes from giving lessons about life in general, to giving lessons about war. Lesson #4, which is to "Maximize efficiency," and Lesson #5 is "Proportionality should be a guideline in war." During these lessons, McNamara begins going into detail about the deaths inflicted by Americans on their enemies. In one instance, American soldiers killed 100,000 people in Tokyo in order to get ahead in the war. The idea was to maximize deaths in order to make weakening the enemy more efficient. He argues that there was little proportionality in these killings, and he asserts that America should have tried harder to minimize deaths. He also argues that whether or not the U.S. won the war, soldiers' actions would have been immoral either way.
At around Lesson #7, which is "Belief and seeing are both often wrong," McNamara goes into discussion about the Vietnam War, specifically. He says that the American government and the military leaders who were for the war saw what they wanted to believe. For example, President Johnson urged on fighting and involvement in Vietnam, drawing out the inevitable loss for America. He also asserts that "You can't change human nature," which is his 11th Lesson. What he means by this is that humans will always be prone to war and fighting, but he urges people to minimize war when faced with it. His belief that the war was an unjust one, and that America should have come out of it much earlier, was the main reason for why he resigned during the Johnson Administration.
Blog 12 CJ
The documentary, Fog of War, portrays the life of Robert McNamara while also giving insight into America’s politics. McNamara makes the film to explain and justify his actions as a politician. He uses eleven lessons as a framework for basing his arguments. Through McNamara’s responses and emotions, the viewer can understand he is troubled by many of the choices he made as the Secretary of State during the Vietnam War. He does not want to take full responsibility of many of his actions that killed thousands of people. McNamara uses lesson number nine, “in order to do good, you may have to engage in evil”, as a guideline to justify his actions. An example of using this lesson was the bombing of Tokyo, which he viewed as a necessary evil. Despite the high death toll and destruction of a city, McNamara still feels as though there was good that came out of the situation. He justifies this by saying their goal was not to kill the most people, but to do what would hurt the enemy the most. McNamara clearly feels guilty for many of the events that happened during the war and must deny much of the blame. McNamara does not admit to authorizing the use of Agent Orange and he rejects the accusation by saying that he does not remember if he authorized it or not. McNamara also expresses his disappointment in the American government for the confusion that was happening during the time. This is seen when he discusses the Gulf of Tonkin and how the military was confused with whether or not the ship was attacked. McNamara is a man who understands statistics and what could be done to maximize efficiency, an idea that was displayed throughout his career.
Through each different lesson, multiple topics were discussed. In the first few lessons of the documentary, McNamara seemed mostly concerned with the statistics of the matter, not necessarily the deeper meaning behind decisions that were made. Also, many of the first lessons discuss McNamara’s younger years, such as working with the ford motor company. Lesson number seven, “belief and seeing are both often wrong”, shows how often leaders can be completely wrong with what both they believe is right and what they have seen. This was the case of the United States ship that was allegedly attacked. This lesson marks a point where McNamara’s thought process beings to change. The idea of efficiency and statistics is replaced for analysis of the reasoning for killing and war. Leading off this analysis is lesson eight which states “be prepared to examine your reasoning”. In this section he discusses the use of Agent Orange and whether or not it is a war crime. McNamara says, “Now what kind of law do we have that says these chemicals are acceptable for use in war and these chemicals are not. We don't have clear definitions of that kind”. Just because it is not a crime does not mean that the harm was not done. This once again leads back to McNamara’s claim that to do good you may have to do evil. In order to connect all lessons and ideas, McNamara ends with, “You can’t change human nature”. He believes that war will never end and that it is part of nature for humans to fight and to kill. He does not condone killing, but believes that it is inevitable. Despite this fact, McNamara says, “And we kill people unnecessarily”. Despite the rationality and analysis of war, it is clear that people will always be killed for unjust reasons.
Through each different lesson, multiple topics were discussed. In the first few lessons of the documentary, McNamara seemed mostly concerned with the statistics of the matter, not necessarily the deeper meaning behind decisions that were made. Also, many of the first lessons discuss McNamara’s younger years, such as working with the ford motor company. Lesson number seven, “belief and seeing are both often wrong”, shows how often leaders can be completely wrong with what both they believe is right and what they have seen. This was the case of the United States ship that was allegedly attacked. This lesson marks a point where McNamara’s thought process beings to change. The idea of efficiency and statistics is replaced for analysis of the reasoning for killing and war. Leading off this analysis is lesson eight which states “be prepared to examine your reasoning”. In this section he discusses the use of Agent Orange and whether or not it is a war crime. McNamara says, “Now what kind of law do we have that says these chemicals are acceptable for use in war and these chemicals are not. We don't have clear definitions of that kind”. Just because it is not a crime does not mean that the harm was not done. This once again leads back to McNamara’s claim that to do good you may have to do evil. In order to connect all lessons and ideas, McNamara ends with, “You can’t change human nature”. He believes that war will never end and that it is part of nature for humans to fight and to kill. He does not condone killing, but believes that it is inevitable. Despite this fact, McNamara says, “And we kill people unnecessarily”. Despite the rationality and analysis of war, it is clear that people will always be killed for unjust reasons.
PAB BLOG 12
The Fog Of War is a documentary of what seems to be Robert S. MacNamera’s attempt to reconcile his past mistakes. The length of the film consisted of MacNamera’s explanations of actions and decisions made by him and the American government. The film is divided into eleven lessons. These lessons were derived from retrospective observation of the actions in the Vietnam War but most of them can theoretically be applied to any situation.
Lessons one to four, observed at a shallow depth, appear to be reasonable methods for succeeding in war. His first two lessons, about the reality of empathy and luck, are reasonable and disconnected from the evils of war. Lesson four approaches a stronger connectivity with the evil of war when MacNamera discusses the night when 100,000 Tokyo civilians were killed. This same event leads into lesson five, which reveals the true monstrosity of what happened in the Vietnam War. In order to kill those 100,000 people, fire bombing was necessary. This proportionality between the numbers of deaths on opposing sides of war represents a change in MacNamera’s change in subject tone.
His views seem to change at lesson seven as well. This lesson, “belief and seeing are both often wrong”, is explained by the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. From this lesson onward, the lessons pertain to human flaws and mistakes. The lessons include reexamining your reasoning, doing evil in order to do good, and to persist. The final lesson says “you can’t change human nature”. MacNamera lists flaws that manifest themselves during time of war. He is aware of these flaws because he was a major example of them all. He attempts to save himself by explaining that these are regular human flaws and you can’t change it. In the interview, MacNamera says “We all make mistakes. We know we make mistakes. I don't know any military commander, who is honest, who would say he has not made a mistake. There's a wonderful phrase: 'the fog of war.' What 'the fog of war' means is: war is so complex it's beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend all the variables. Our judgment, our understanding, are not adequate. And we kill people unnecessarily.”
By the end of The Fog Of War it has become apparent that Robert Strange MacNamera tries to save face by blaming his actions on unfortunate human nature and not his personally flawed decision making.
Lessons one to four, observed at a shallow depth, appear to be reasonable methods for succeeding in war. His first two lessons, about the reality of empathy and luck, are reasonable and disconnected from the evils of war. Lesson four approaches a stronger connectivity with the evil of war when MacNamera discusses the night when 100,000 Tokyo civilians were killed. This same event leads into lesson five, which reveals the true monstrosity of what happened in the Vietnam War. In order to kill those 100,000 people, fire bombing was necessary. This proportionality between the numbers of deaths on opposing sides of war represents a change in MacNamera’s change in subject tone.
His views seem to change at lesson seven as well. This lesson, “belief and seeing are both often wrong”, is explained by the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. From this lesson onward, the lessons pertain to human flaws and mistakes. The lessons include reexamining your reasoning, doing evil in order to do good, and to persist. The final lesson says “you can’t change human nature”. MacNamera lists flaws that manifest themselves during time of war. He is aware of these flaws because he was a major example of them all. He attempts to save himself by explaining that these are regular human flaws and you can’t change it. In the interview, MacNamera says “We all make mistakes. We know we make mistakes. I don't know any military commander, who is honest, who would say he has not made a mistake. There's a wonderful phrase: 'the fog of war.' What 'the fog of war' means is: war is so complex it's beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend all the variables. Our judgment, our understanding, are not adequate. And we kill people unnecessarily.”
By the end of The Fog Of War it has become apparent that Robert Strange MacNamera tries to save face by blaming his actions on unfortunate human nature and not his personally flawed decision making.
Blog 12 SJC
The film The Fog of War is a documentary the details many different parts of former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara's life. The film takes the viewer through his upbringing and discusses his involvement with Harvard, Ford Motor Company, WW1, WW2, the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Vietnam War. The film is split up based on the eleven lessons McNamara wants to share with the world.
McNamara's reason for the film is to advise the rest of the world about how to handle a war.From his time as Defense Secretary and in other positions of power, McNamara has realized that it is inevitable that humans will make mistakes and will engage in war but hopes in providing these lessons that the amount of death and destruction can be decreased. I also think he uses the film as a way to explain why certain events unfolded the way they did and what he learned through his experiences. Through the film, McNamara is able to provide an explanation for his actions as Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam War, something he was unable to do before.
In terms of the lessons, there is a clear point where the ideas behind the lessons shift. This point occurs when he introduces the Vietnam War during lesson six. Up until lesson six, the lessons deal almost specifically with war and what should be done with war in order to have a better end result. Starting with lesson six, the lessons begin to take on a more philosophical approach and can apply to more than just war but to life as well. They are lessons that should be considered in everyday life when making important decisions. These lessons seem to be aimed at those who are in a position of power and who have the ability to decide the outcome of thousands of human lives to help them make better decisions and to show them that their original thoughts may not always be right . While speaking about each of the lessons, McNamara takes a reflective standpoint, admitting that he made mistakes in terms of each of the lessons and taking responsibility for certain actions that occured in order to show that even a person such as him, someone who was extremely knowledgeable about the Vietnam War, can make mistakes.
McNamara's reason for the film is to advise the rest of the world about how to handle a war.From his time as Defense Secretary and in other positions of power, McNamara has realized that it is inevitable that humans will make mistakes and will engage in war but hopes in providing these lessons that the amount of death and destruction can be decreased. I also think he uses the film as a way to explain why certain events unfolded the way they did and what he learned through his experiences. Through the film, McNamara is able to provide an explanation for his actions as Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam War, something he was unable to do before.
In terms of the lessons, there is a clear point where the ideas behind the lessons shift. This point occurs when he introduces the Vietnam War during lesson six. Up until lesson six, the lessons deal almost specifically with war and what should be done with war in order to have a better end result. Starting with lesson six, the lessons begin to take on a more philosophical approach and can apply to more than just war but to life as well. They are lessons that should be considered in everyday life when making important decisions. These lessons seem to be aimed at those who are in a position of power and who have the ability to decide the outcome of thousands of human lives to help them make better decisions and to show them that their original thoughts may not always be right . While speaking about each of the lessons, McNamara takes a reflective standpoint, admitting that he made mistakes in terms of each of the lessons and taking responsibility for certain actions that occured in order to show that even a person such as him, someone who was extremely knowledgeable about the Vietnam War, can make mistakes.
Blog 12 DRS
"Fog of War" is a documentary featuring Robert McNamara, and chronicles his experiences as Secretary of Defense of the Vietnam war, experiences with the Cuban Missile Crisis, and as president of Ford Motor Company. The documentary is composed of 11 lessons to apply in times of war or when considering entering a war, but they could also be applied to everyday life. I believe McNamara's reasoning for being a part of this documentary is two-fold: 1) He truly believes war to be an increasingly dangerous proposition, and that we are at a point in time where we need to consider how war can easily lead into a nuclear conflict; and 2) as a sort of apology for his former decisions and actions--an attempt to absolve himself of his sins at an old age.
Throughout the documentary there are are several parts in which there seem to be a shift in the lessons. Lessons 1-3, "Empathize with your enemy," "Rationality will not save us," and "There is something beyond one's self" seem to be everyday rationalizations and realities which can be applied throughout one's life. The next 3-4 lessons seem to deal with war itself, focusing on the numerics and statistics and efficiency of that need to be taken into account before and during an engagement of war. The final 4-5 lessons seem to try to rationalize the war and serve more or less as McNamara's apology for his acts as Secretary of Defense. In all, these three shifts serve as an interesting perspective into not just the Vietnam War, but war in and of itself from Robert McNamara, one of the most hated men in America at the time (and even to this day).
Throughout the documentary there are are several parts in which there seem to be a shift in the lessons. Lessons 1-3, "Empathize with your enemy," "Rationality will not save us," and "There is something beyond one's self" seem to be everyday rationalizations and realities which can be applied throughout one's life. The next 3-4 lessons seem to deal with war itself, focusing on the numerics and statistics and efficiency of that need to be taken into account before and during an engagement of war. The final 4-5 lessons seem to try to rationalize the war and serve more or less as McNamara's apology for his acts as Secretary of Defense. In all, these three shifts serve as an interesting perspective into not just the Vietnam War, but war in and of itself from Robert McNamara, one of the most hated men in America at the time (and even to this day).
Blog 11 The Fog of War RGL
The Fog of War details the life of former secretary of defense Robert McNamara through many momentous events in the nations history including both World Wars, the Cold War and the Vietnam War. From these experiences, McNamara draws 11 lessons:
#1-Empathize with your enemy
#2-Rationality will not save us
#3-There's something beyond one's self
#4-Maximize efficiency
#5-Proportionality should be a guideline in war
#6-Get the data
#7-Belief and seeing are often both wrong
#8-Be prepared to re-examine your reasoning
#9-In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil
#10-Never say never
#11-You can't change human nature
As the film progresses McNamara takes us through the lessons as they flow with his life. He created this film in order to help explain his views on war and how they have progressed through history. This film helps him to explain the point of the war, and to help understand why things occured as they did, and what he took from it. Furthermore, it gives him a voice to proclaim his view of the war.
A shift can be seen in the overall idea of the film after the fifth lesson. Here is when McNamara makes the transition from a soldier, commanding forces, to one living back home. It can be seen as the transition back. The following lessons are more life lessons as opposed to the rules of war that are initially put forth. This film makes a transition from a war documentary, to one that provides lessons, and instructions for those who did not experience war. In both sets though, McNamara works to inform the viewer about what truly happened as opposed to reading through a textbook.
#1-Empathize with your enemy
#2-Rationality will not save us
#3-There's something beyond one's self
#4-Maximize efficiency
#5-Proportionality should be a guideline in war
#6-Get the data
#7-Belief and seeing are often both wrong
#8-Be prepared to re-examine your reasoning
#9-In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil
#10-Never say never
#11-You can't change human nature
As the film progresses McNamara takes us through the lessons as they flow with his life. He created this film in order to help explain his views on war and how they have progressed through history. This film helps him to explain the point of the war, and to help understand why things occured as they did, and what he took from it. Furthermore, it gives him a voice to proclaim his view of the war.
A shift can be seen in the overall idea of the film after the fifth lesson. Here is when McNamara makes the transition from a soldier, commanding forces, to one living back home. It can be seen as the transition back. The following lessons are more life lessons as opposed to the rules of war that are initially put forth. This film makes a transition from a war documentary, to one that provides lessons, and instructions for those who did not experience war. In both sets though, McNamara works to inform the viewer about what truly happened as opposed to reading through a textbook.
Blog 12: DW
Morris' film, Fog of War, is a documentary about the life of former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara. McNamara talks about his life and the big American events he was involved in like World War II, being an executive at Ford Motor Company, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the Vietnam War. This film is centered around 11 key points that McNamara has uncovered throughout his experiences. They are:
1: Empathize with your enemy
2: Rationality will not save us
3. There's something beyond one's self
4. Maximize efficiency
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war
6. Get the data
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil
10. Never say never
11. You can't change human nature
McNamara uses these rules to sort of try and justify his actions throughout his life. He brings up many reasons that he did the things that he did, like he was just following orders or the cold war. Lessons 1, 4, 5, and 6 are about the keys and necessities of war. Each are important in their own ways to the success of a war. In addition to these lessons, he includes more philosophical lessons. He was involved in a lot of philosophy courses in school and thus incorporates lessons 2, 3, and 7 in. These lessons are more focused on indentifying characteristics of how people work and react to certain things that could negatively affect the outcome of the war and trying to correct those things before they do so. The final 4 lessons focus seem to be more based most on opinion than anything else. He uses these to illustrate the way war has a way to be misunderstood easily and incomprehensible by most. Things happen in war that nobody expected could happen and that people see as inexcusable. He seems to go against lesson 9 when talking about Vietnam because nothing good came of the Vietnam War and so much evil was committed.
I found this film largely to be an apology for some of his actions that were not the smartest or "right" he could have made. He is making an attempt to explain what caused him to make the decisions that he did, but realized that there are so many things that go into making serious decisions like that that nobody can truly or fully understand. He brings up the point that he and other officials probably would have been tried as war criminals if they had not won the war because of the things they ordered be done. One example is of the firebombing campaigns in Japan. He tries to bring the devastation into perspective by comparing what was destroyed in Japan to the equivalent of cities in the US like New York, Chicago, and Las Angeles. In retrospect, some decisions look like the wrong ones, but at the time he thought he was doing what was in the best interest of the country.
1: Empathize with your enemy
2: Rationality will not save us
3. There's something beyond one's self
4. Maximize efficiency
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war
6. Get the data
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil
10. Never say never
11. You can't change human nature
McNamara uses these rules to sort of try and justify his actions throughout his life. He brings up many reasons that he did the things that he did, like he was just following orders or the cold war. Lessons 1, 4, 5, and 6 are about the keys and necessities of war. Each are important in their own ways to the success of a war. In addition to these lessons, he includes more philosophical lessons. He was involved in a lot of philosophy courses in school and thus incorporates lessons 2, 3, and 7 in. These lessons are more focused on indentifying characteristics of how people work and react to certain things that could negatively affect the outcome of the war and trying to correct those things before they do so. The final 4 lessons focus seem to be more based most on opinion than anything else. He uses these to illustrate the way war has a way to be misunderstood easily and incomprehensible by most. Things happen in war that nobody expected could happen and that people see as inexcusable. He seems to go against lesson 9 when talking about Vietnam because nothing good came of the Vietnam War and so much evil was committed.
I found this film largely to be an apology for some of his actions that were not the smartest or "right" he could have made. He is making an attempt to explain what caused him to make the decisions that he did, but realized that there are so many things that go into making serious decisions like that that nobody can truly or fully understand. He brings up the point that he and other officials probably would have been tried as war criminals if they had not won the war because of the things they ordered be done. One example is of the firebombing campaigns in Japan. He tries to bring the devastation into perspective by comparing what was destroyed in Japan to the equivalent of cities in the US like New York, Chicago, and Las Angeles. In retrospect, some decisions look like the wrong ones, but at the time he thought he was doing what was in the best interest of the country.
Blog 12 JCP
Fog of War is a film about U.S. Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara professional life and experiences with including World War I and II, The Cuban Missle Crisis, running Ford Motor Company, and the Vietnam War. Looking back on what he and his country went through, McNamara structures the film with 11 lessons pertaining to war as well as life. The lessons are as follows:
1. Empathize with your enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond one's self.
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
The ideas behind the lessons shift after lesson 5. The first lessons are mainly regarding war and how to go about it successfully. The next six lessons pertain to life, and more importantly people in positions of power. He uses these lessons from a reflective standpoint, admitting his mistakes and shows how they can be applied generally to war to bring about a better result. The title Fog of War, in military terms refers to the ambiguity of situational awareness in military operations. The fog is also in front of government officials making the decisions behind war. These officials issue orders that those who are "in country" must follow. We have studied the difference between what those who were in the war and those who ran the politics of the war. That difference is the fog that McNamara faced, and his lessons look to clear that up and aid in future war operations.
1. Empathize with your enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond one's self.
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
The ideas behind the lessons shift after lesson 5. The first lessons are mainly regarding war and how to go about it successfully. The next six lessons pertain to life, and more importantly people in positions of power. He uses these lessons from a reflective standpoint, admitting his mistakes and shows how they can be applied generally to war to bring about a better result. The title Fog of War, in military terms refers to the ambiguity of situational awareness in military operations. The fog is also in front of government officials making the decisions behind war. These officials issue orders that those who are "in country" must follow. We have studied the difference between what those who were in the war and those who ran the politics of the war. That difference is the fog that McNamara faced, and his lessons look to clear that up and aid in future war operations.
Blog Twelve- LdT
The Fog of War is a documentary that focuses on The United States Secretary of Defense, Robert S. McNamara. McNamara was involved with many historical events in American history including World War II, running Ford Motor Company, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the Vietnam War. Through the film, McNamara narrates the story of Vietnam, which can also pertain to common life. The eleven lessons that McNamara talks about are:
1.Empathize with your enemy
2.Rationality will not save us
3.There's something beyond one's self
4.Maximize efficiency
5.Proportionality should be a guideline in war
6. Get the data
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil
10. Never say never
11. You can't change human nature
McNamara speaks with real honesty in the documentary. There is a clear shift in ideas after the fifth lesson. At first it seems as though it is only about war, however, after the fifth, the lessons turn into everyday life lessons. McNamara admits that he regrets the war, which seems like it is difficult to say because he was the Secretary of Defense and had so much knowledge of what was going on. McNamara really looks at what having power did to America, having been very involved with Ford Motor Company, and being the Secretary of Defense; he had a lot of practice with running big powers. He also knows that just because you are in power does not mean what you are saying is right. He admits in the film that those in power said things that may not have been right, but even they didn’t know what was happening.
McNamara offers his lessons that he learned as a sort of apology to what happened. He is not blaming himself obviously, but he does know that mistakes were made and many people died unreasonably.
MGB Fog of War 12
The Fog of War is a documentary about U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara and the actions he took politically throughout his life. McNamara was involved in many big events throughout American history. The film is told from his perspective, and highlights his involvement as Ford Motors President, the Cuban Missile Crisis and especially the Vietnam War. This film takes on a more factual and historical perspective as it is a documentary. Although many topics are covered, McNamara mainly focuses on the Vietnam War under the Kennedy and Johnson era. As a nonfiction film, McNamara narrates the story of the Vietnam War in eleven main components.
Lesson #1 Empathize with your enemy.
Lesson #2 Rationality will not save us.
Lesson #3 There’s something beyond one’s self.
Lesson #4 Maximize efficiency.
Lesson #5 Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
Lesson #6 Get the data.
Lesson #7 Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
Lesson #8 Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
Lesson #9 In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
Lesson #10 Never say never.
Lesson #11 You can’t change human nature.
These are all points that McNamara only had the insight of after the war. He explains them with this insight and also his regrets on the war. Several of the lessons follow the theme of the strategy of war, while others are more moralistic. The moralistic reasons, like 11, show how McNamara regrets many of the events that happened in the Vietnam War. His perspective is interesting, because it shows the side of the government and society back home compared to the “in country” perspectives we’re already analyzed.
McNamara is very honest in the film. He admits, while showing graphs of death tolls and other graphic evidence of the war, that he made errors. He states in the film, “Any military commander who is honest with himself, or with those he's speaking to, will admit that he has made mistakes in the application of military power. He's killed people unnecessarily — his own troops or other troops” (McNamara, 2004). As Secretary of State, it was McNamara’s job to advise the president on foreign affairs. McNamara’s reasoning behind the film was to make peace with his involvement and to confess the errors on his involvement to American society. Prior wars that McNamara had dealt with were not as complicated, and the U.S. always seemed to have the upper hand. He admits that the government did not know how to handle this war in the right way because it was the first war they had encountered like this in American history.
The ideas on the film shift from excuses to explanation by his 11 reasons and discussion of the Vietnam War. The 11 ideas were not specific to only the Vietnam War, but all wars. His new philosophy through his explanation of the war shows how the ideas shifted based on his affirmations of what went wrong.
Lesson #1 Empathize with your enemy.
Lesson #2 Rationality will not save us.
Lesson #3 There’s something beyond one’s self.
Lesson #4 Maximize efficiency.
Lesson #5 Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
Lesson #6 Get the data.
Lesson #7 Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
Lesson #8 Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
Lesson #9 In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
Lesson #10 Never say never.
Lesson #11 You can’t change human nature.
These are all points that McNamara only had the insight of after the war. He explains them with this insight and also his regrets on the war. Several of the lessons follow the theme of the strategy of war, while others are more moralistic. The moralistic reasons, like 11, show how McNamara regrets many of the events that happened in the Vietnam War. His perspective is interesting, because it shows the side of the government and society back home compared to the “in country” perspectives we’re already analyzed.
McNamara is very honest in the film. He admits, while showing graphs of death tolls and other graphic evidence of the war, that he made errors. He states in the film, “Any military commander who is honest with himself, or with those he's speaking to, will admit that he has made mistakes in the application of military power. He's killed people unnecessarily — his own troops or other troops” (McNamara, 2004). As Secretary of State, it was McNamara’s job to advise the president on foreign affairs. McNamara’s reasoning behind the film was to make peace with his involvement and to confess the errors on his involvement to American society. Prior wars that McNamara had dealt with were not as complicated, and the U.S. always seemed to have the upper hand. He admits that the government did not know how to handle this war in the right way because it was the first war they had encountered like this in American history.
The ideas on the film shift from excuses to explanation by his 11 reasons and discussion of the Vietnam War. The 11 ideas were not specific to only the Vietnam War, but all wars. His new philosophy through his explanation of the war shows how the ideas shifted based on his affirmations of what went wrong.
Blog 12 NR
85 year old McNamara is advising the world on how to go about war using a recap of his professional life. He does this because he recognizes that war among humans is inevitable, despite how ugly it is and how wrong it may seem. The former secretary of defense talks about his experiences in WWII through the Vietnam War as well as other sprinkled glimpses into his life. His “lessons” don’t seem to serve any purpose other than to give the documentary some sense of structure. Some just seem to be supported much better than others. There is however, a slight shift in the tone of the lessons after “Get the Data”.
His lessons parallel with the direction of his career. Lessons 1 through 5 deal mainly with wartime strategy and observations. “Empathize with the enemy” says we should look at the war through the eyes of the Vietnamese. We were fighting the cold war while they were simply fighting a civil war. “Maximize Efficiency” was mainly about his calculations and observations of the new bombers and their lack of accuracy. His observations led to another officer’s order to firebomb cities at a much lower altitude, leading to massive Vietnamese casualties. This leads into “Proportionality should be a guideline to war”, where McNamara compares bombed cities to their equals in the USA. It really brings his message home with the visuals in the film.
The documentary seems to take a more philosophical approach with the remaining lessons. “Belief and seeing are both often wrong” talks about the struggle of grasping how the US was failing in Vietnam. “In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil” tells us that war is inevitable. With hostility being in man’s nature, resolve sometimes has to come with a price. The film flashes back to his days studying philosophy in college as he talks about this particular subject.
His lessons parallel with the direction of his career. Lessons 1 through 5 deal mainly with wartime strategy and observations. “Empathize with the enemy” says we should look at the war through the eyes of the Vietnamese. We were fighting the cold war while they were simply fighting a civil war. “Maximize Efficiency” was mainly about his calculations and observations of the new bombers and their lack of accuracy. His observations led to another officer’s order to firebomb cities at a much lower altitude, leading to massive Vietnamese casualties. This leads into “Proportionality should be a guideline to war”, where McNamara compares bombed cities to their equals in the USA. It really brings his message home with the visuals in the film.
The documentary seems to take a more philosophical approach with the remaining lessons. “Belief and seeing are both often wrong” talks about the struggle of grasping how the US was failing in Vietnam. “In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil” tells us that war is inevitable. With hostility being in man’s nature, resolve sometimes has to come with a price. The film flashes back to his days studying philosophy in college as he talks about this particular subject.
Blog 12 Fog of War- KSP
The Fog of War directed by Errol Morris is a documentary that focuses on the life and actions of former U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara. In the film McNamara talks about his childhood during WWI, his days as Ford Motor Company’s President, and his involvement in the Cuban Missile Crisis and Vietnam War under Presidents Kennedy and Johnson. The documentary is broken up into eleven parts based on McNamara’s lessons. Although many of these lessons pertain to war, they can be applied to real life occurrences. The lessons are as follows:
Lesson #1 Empathize with your enemy.
Lesson #2 Rationality will not save us.
Lesson #3 There’s something beyond one’s self.
Lesson #4 Maximize efficiency.
Lesson #5 Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
Lesson #6 Get the data.
Lesson #7 Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
Lesson #8 Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
Lesson #9 In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
Lesson #10 Never say never.
Lesson #11 You can’t change human nature.
After watching the film it is evident that McNamara uses this film as a way to rationalize and explain many of the policies he carried out, especially in terms of the Vietnam War. There were many times he was asked to explain something like why the United States used Agent Orange. In response to these questions he said that he did not know or that he was just following orders. Later on in the documentary, McNamara is asked to apply his lessons to the Iraq, but refuses to do so because he believes a former Secretary of Defense should not criticize another man's policy.
The rules that McNamara provides do not just deal with the Vietnam War, but pertain to all wars. Lessons 1, 4, 5, and 6 provide guidelines for the logistics of war, and are self explanatory. When talking about lesson 5 McNamara parallels cities that were destroyed in Vietnam to what their American counterparts would have been. Lessons 2, 3 and 7 are philosophical lessons that make the audience look deeper in what he is saying. In lesson 7 McNamara says, “Belief and seeing are both often wrong”. In the film he says that even though the American public was told various things by the government it may not have been right because those who were in power did not even know what was going on. Lessons 8, 9, 10 and 11 are based on opinion. Lesson 9 says that “In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil”. Many people would disagree with this statement, and to an extent McNamara disagrees with it in the documentary because nothing good came out of all the evil and destruction that occurred in Vietnam.
Although the lessons compose most of the movie, there are two points that McNamara brings up at the end that are extremely important. The first point is the idea of hindsight. McNamara goes on to talk about history and how everything that happens could have been fixed or altered in hindsight. At the present moment, one solution may have appeared right, but five or twenty years later it could be seen as the completely wrong decision. The second point pertains to the title The Fog of War. The fog of war is the idea that “War is so complex it’s beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend all of the variables” (The Fog of War, Morris). The lessons are a means to explain and rationalize war, but in the end war can never be fully explained because there are too many levels and details of it to understand.
Lesson #1 Empathize with your enemy.
Lesson #2 Rationality will not save us.
Lesson #3 There’s something beyond one’s self.
Lesson #4 Maximize efficiency.
Lesson #5 Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
Lesson #6 Get the data.
Lesson #7 Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
Lesson #8 Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
Lesson #9 In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
Lesson #10 Never say never.
Lesson #11 You can’t change human nature.
After watching the film it is evident that McNamara uses this film as a way to rationalize and explain many of the policies he carried out, especially in terms of the Vietnam War. There were many times he was asked to explain something like why the United States used Agent Orange. In response to these questions he said that he did not know or that he was just following orders. Later on in the documentary, McNamara is asked to apply his lessons to the Iraq, but refuses to do so because he believes a former Secretary of Defense should not criticize another man's policy.
The rules that McNamara provides do not just deal with the Vietnam War, but pertain to all wars. Lessons 1, 4, 5, and 6 provide guidelines for the logistics of war, and are self explanatory. When talking about lesson 5 McNamara parallels cities that were destroyed in Vietnam to what their American counterparts would have been. Lessons 2, 3 and 7 are philosophical lessons that make the audience look deeper in what he is saying. In lesson 7 McNamara says, “Belief and seeing are both often wrong”. In the film he says that even though the American public was told various things by the government it may not have been right because those who were in power did not even know what was going on. Lessons 8, 9, 10 and 11 are based on opinion. Lesson 9 says that “In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil”. Many people would disagree with this statement, and to an extent McNamara disagrees with it in the documentary because nothing good came out of all the evil and destruction that occurred in Vietnam.
Although the lessons compose most of the movie, there are two points that McNamara brings up at the end that are extremely important. The first point is the idea of hindsight. McNamara goes on to talk about history and how everything that happens could have been fixed or altered in hindsight. At the present moment, one solution may have appeared right, but five or twenty years later it could be seen as the completely wrong decision. The second point pertains to the title The Fog of War. The fog of war is the idea that “War is so complex it’s beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend all of the variables” (The Fog of War, Morris). The lessons are a means to explain and rationalize war, but in the end war can never be fully explained because there are too many levels and details of it to understand.
Fog of War QMC
The Fog of War is a documentary film about the life of Robert McNamara. McNamara served as Secretary of Defense under Kennedy and Johnson, and most of the film is centered around his experiences and opinions of war in a general sense, despite his close experiences with a number of wars. The film depicts so to speak "underground" information during war years that the American government didn't release to the public at the time. There are recordings of conversations between McNamara and both presidents Johnson and Kennedy that have both presidents ask McNamara to offer them advice on how they should handle speaking to the public in regards to reporting the Vietnam War. McNamara's reason for making this film is to make aware the brutalities of war, and provides his eleven lessons of war so that the same mistakes are not made again.
There is a distinct point in which the ideas in the film shift. The beginning of the documentary is mostly McNamara's earlier experiences such as the Cuban Missile Crisis and firebombing in Japan while he served as Secretary of Defense, but the point in which the ideas shift in the film is the introduction of the Vietnam War, and Lesson #7, Belief and seeing are often both wrong. Before this point, the tone of the film was not that war was destruction and aimless killing like it was after this lesson. There are numerous times in the film Beliewhere the American death tolls are announced, including charts and graphs comparing casualties, including destruction of houses and buildings and the number of families killed. Until the end of the documentary, McNamara explains the Vietnam War and his involvement, especially his difference in opinion with Johnson over strategy in Vietnam, which led him to his resignation. McNamara had expressed to President Johnson that he believed that troops in Vietnam need to be sent back home to reduce the death toll.
McNamara is not hestitant to admit that he has made errors and for that he is sorry, but this is the conclusion of the film. He admits that all military officers, if true to themselves, know that they have also made mistakes in war. People are killed unneccesarily during war, and war is written in human nature, so the idea of war is inevitable. However, McNamara offers his lessons in the hopes of allowing future wars to end before they start or not escalade to a point of irreversible destruction.
There is a distinct point in which the ideas in the film shift. The beginning of the documentary is mostly McNamara's earlier experiences such as the Cuban Missile Crisis and firebombing in Japan while he served as Secretary of Defense, but the point in which the ideas shift in the film is the introduction of the Vietnam War, and Lesson #7, Belief and seeing are often both wrong. Before this point, the tone of the film was not that war was destruction and aimless killing like it was after this lesson. There are numerous times in the film Beliewhere the American death tolls are announced, including charts and graphs comparing casualties, including destruction of houses and buildings and the number of families killed. Until the end of the documentary, McNamara explains the Vietnam War and his involvement, especially his difference in opinion with Johnson over strategy in Vietnam, which led him to his resignation. McNamara had expressed to President Johnson that he believed that troops in Vietnam need to be sent back home to reduce the death toll.
McNamara is not hestitant to admit that he has made errors and for that he is sorry, but this is the conclusion of the film. He admits that all military officers, if true to themselves, know that they have also made mistakes in war. People are killed unneccesarily during war, and war is written in human nature, so the idea of war is inevitable. However, McNamara offers his lessons in the hopes of allowing future wars to end before they start or not escalade to a point of irreversible destruction.
Blog 12 AZ
The Fog Of War depicts the life of Robert McNamara, United States Secretary of Defense 1961 to 1968. The topics discussed spans McNamara's life work which encompasses his involvment in WWII, being an executive at Ford Motor Company, and his involvment in the Vietnam War under President John F Kenedy and Lyndon B Johnson. The film is based around eleven lesson which McNamara discusses.
The eleven rules are:
1.Empathize with your enemy
2.Rationality will not save us.
3.There's something beyond one's self.
4.Maximize efficiency.
5.Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
In the film, it appeared that McNamara attempted to make peace with all of his actions and explain them to the American Public. He explained that these rules were about war, not a specific war. When asked about relating them to the Iraq war he declined to answer. Overall it seemed like he placed the most emphasis on trying to justify his actions in Vietnam. A few times he stated some excuses that: the country was in the middle of the cold war, he was only following the President's orders, and everything was kind of like a domino effect in that he had no real power to change or alter the situation at the time.
The ideas behind the rules shifted a few times. Some of the rules were more of a philosophicla message. For example rule 2 "Rationality will not save us" and 7. " Belief and seeing are both often wrong". Other rules were more obvious and concrete. For example rule 4, 5, and 6. In this section McNamara compared cities destroyed in the war to the equivalent of what a US sized city would be. The point of doing this was to relate the proportionality of what was destroyed to the objectives for destroying it. This point is controversial because some feel that destroying these cities was just while others disagree. McNamara seems to dance around the subject and he doesn't really say what his stance was. Also in this section McNamara explains how the US had failed to come to state with the rules of the war. He stresses the point again about how the President thought it was in the country's best interest to reveal as little information as possible. He also pointed out that even the President and people in high governmental positions had no idea what was really going on. He further expresses this when he is speaking of himself and how he was elected to be the country's secretary of defense, when he had very little experience and knowlege of war and war strategies.
The last three rules were more opinion based. In lesson 9 "In order to do good you have to engage in evil", McNamara gave the impression that we did not do anything good in Vietnam. Therefore he is implying that this rule does not really apply in this situation of war. He did not speak of one positive thing that came out of the evil that we started in Vietnam.
In the two rules "Never say never" and "You can't change human nature" he trys to justify everything by explaining how complex war is. He talkes of the "fog of war" and how no one can comprehend it. He states that we are all rational people, but reason has its limits and when we are in a war situation there is always a lot of misunderstanding. The saying "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" is applied to the war and used to make decisions in the past seem less bad.
The eleven rules are:
1.Empathize with your enemy
2.Rationality will not save us.
3.There's something beyond one's self.
4.Maximize efficiency.
5.Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
In the film, it appeared that McNamara attempted to make peace with all of his actions and explain them to the American Public. He explained that these rules were about war, not a specific war. When asked about relating them to the Iraq war he declined to answer. Overall it seemed like he placed the most emphasis on trying to justify his actions in Vietnam. A few times he stated some excuses that: the country was in the middle of the cold war, he was only following the President's orders, and everything was kind of like a domino effect in that he had no real power to change or alter the situation at the time.
The ideas behind the rules shifted a few times. Some of the rules were more of a philosophicla message. For example rule 2 "Rationality will not save us" and 7. " Belief and seeing are both often wrong". Other rules were more obvious and concrete. For example rule 4, 5, and 6. In this section McNamara compared cities destroyed in the war to the equivalent of what a US sized city would be. The point of doing this was to relate the proportionality of what was destroyed to the objectives for destroying it. This point is controversial because some feel that destroying these cities was just while others disagree. McNamara seems to dance around the subject and he doesn't really say what his stance was. Also in this section McNamara explains how the US had failed to come to state with the rules of the war. He stresses the point again about how the President thought it was in the country's best interest to reveal as little information as possible. He also pointed out that even the President and people in high governmental positions had no idea what was really going on. He further expresses this when he is speaking of himself and how he was elected to be the country's secretary of defense, when he had very little experience and knowlege of war and war strategies.
The last three rules were more opinion based. In lesson 9 "In order to do good you have to engage in evil", McNamara gave the impression that we did not do anything good in Vietnam. Therefore he is implying that this rule does not really apply in this situation of war. He did not speak of one positive thing that came out of the evil that we started in Vietnam.
In the two rules "Never say never" and "You can't change human nature" he trys to justify everything by explaining how complex war is. He talkes of the "fog of war" and how no one can comprehend it. He states that we are all rational people, but reason has its limits and when we are in a war situation there is always a lot of misunderstanding. The saying "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" is applied to the war and used to make decisions in the past seem less bad.
Monday, April 19, 2010
MS FOG OF WAR
I believe McNamara agreed to do this film because he realized how many mistakes he made and how many mistakes the government made in their foreign policy. He thought this movie might have been a way for him to show that he is sorry in some ways and give explanations to the public.
Throughout this documentary McNamara spoke about the fact that everyone made mistakes but that people should not repeat the same mistakes. However, the U.S. government seemed to make the same mistakes over and over again.
In one of the parts, we listen to a recording of a discussion that McNamara had with Thompson, where thompson says if they stay in Vietnam they are destroying the country and killing tens of thousands of people and if they don't stay communism will take over the entire eastern hemisphere. This dilemma reflects the title the fog of war, meaning that nothing is clear and that war is a very complex issue.
Overall, McNamara expresses that sometimes war is necessary but it should be limited. In lesson #5, Proportionality should be a guideline in war, McNamara brings up the incendiary bombs that killed a hundred thousand people in one shot and raises the question whether it was necessary.
Throughout this documentary McNamara spoke about the fact that everyone made mistakes but that people should not repeat the same mistakes. However, the U.S. government seemed to make the same mistakes over and over again.
In one of the parts, we listen to a recording of a discussion that McNamara had with Thompson, where thompson says if they stay in Vietnam they are destroying the country and killing tens of thousands of people and if they don't stay communism will take over the entire eastern hemisphere. This dilemma reflects the title the fog of war, meaning that nothing is clear and that war is a very complex issue.
Overall, McNamara expresses that sometimes war is necessary but it should be limited. In lesson #5, Proportionality should be a guideline in war, McNamara brings up the incendiary bombs that killed a hundred thousand people in one shot and raises the question whether it was necessary.
Blog 11 FY
In Country written by Babbie Ann Mason is a war novel revolving around a seventeen year old girl named Samantha. Surprisingly, the novel focuses on a young girl who never even fought in Vietnam as the protagonist of a story about Vietnam. I think this book can be though of as a coming home novel. The book is set in the 1980's well after the war took place, yet Vietnam is still very much on Sam and her brother Emmett's minds. The book is mysteriously titled In Country even though it is set in the United Sates. I think this is a reference to the fact that the war never truly left the veterans minds. As we have seen they are always thinking back to their war experiences through flashbacks or drunken stupors. In this sense its almost like they are constantly fighting the war and never really come home. This is one of the reasons for the trouble veterans have adjusting back to normal life. "He was looking to get his ass and head rearranged. You talk about somebody with problems. Even the V.A. would know hes got problems (pg. 122). This quote is from the fight Pete and Earl had, and shows how much trouble vets had adjusting to regular life. Although Jim tries to throw a party for all the veterans it gets out of hand and the turnout is not great. I just dont think that many soldiers want to relive there war experiences together like Jim does. Instead they prefer a life of solitude where they can forget all the horrors of the past and try to move on. Even at a happy celebration the vets cant get along because the war had such a big effect that their lives never have the same normality to them as before. Emmett is also shown to have trouble adjusting to regular life. Although he has a beautiful girl waiting for him and willing to be with him he ignores her most of the time thinking he is not good enough. He even says that its difficult to be with women because they weren't over there in Vietnam so they could never understand. Also he does not want to hold a steady job even though we are shown that he has received many offers from employers. Instead he prefers to work on unnecessary housework which frustrates Sam. Emmett probably feels like he cant work again for a while because he is trying to resolve his past, despite the war being long over. This just shows that the Vets all live in the past, which is one reason for the difficulty they have in adjusting to the present.
Since this is the 1980's popular culture plays a huge role in the book. The role of popular culture stands out so much that it almost takes a dominating position in the book. There several references to some culture icon, whether it be a musician or a brand, in every chapter. I think the constant references serve to show how the country had moved on from the Vietnam war. In the seventies the prime focus of the country was on fighting the war and all the peace protest movements against the drafts. All this is largely forgotten and that is why Mason puts such a focus on pop culture. It shows how quickly people forget about the past. At the time people really didnt care about the veterans or the war anymore. I think this is one reason why Sam always says that she wants to go back to the sixties. That was a time when the Beatles were still together and the country had not yet been effected by the war. Also I think that pop culture is used to show the transitional phase Sam is experiencing. "They are at a crossroads: the interstate with traffic headed east and west, and the state road with north-south traffic. Shes in Limbo, stationed right in the center of this enormous amount of energy" (pg. 17). In this way Sam's life is between Vietnam in the present. On one hand she is trying to find more information on her father, on the other she is focused on the life of a teenager and all the pop culture that goes with being young. The way the novel is written where it shifts between talking about the difficulty of the war to whats on HBO is like Sam's life where she desperately tries to ask Emmett and his veteran friends about the war on one page, and is talking about McDonald's and Pepsi on the next. This can also be used as a symbol of her age where she is not quite an adult,and yet not quite a child either. Like she said "Shes in Limbo". In this way the pop culture is her childhood while Vietnam and her interest in her father is like adulthood, she is stuck in the middle.
Since this is the 1980's popular culture plays a huge role in the book. The role of popular culture stands out so much that it almost takes a dominating position in the book. There several references to some culture icon, whether it be a musician or a brand, in every chapter. I think the constant references serve to show how the country had moved on from the Vietnam war. In the seventies the prime focus of the country was on fighting the war and all the peace protest movements against the drafts. All this is largely forgotten and that is why Mason puts such a focus on pop culture. It shows how quickly people forget about the past. At the time people really didnt care about the veterans or the war anymore. I think this is one reason why Sam always says that she wants to go back to the sixties. That was a time when the Beatles were still together and the country had not yet been effected by the war. Also I think that pop culture is used to show the transitional phase Sam is experiencing. "They are at a crossroads: the interstate with traffic headed east and west, and the state road with north-south traffic. Shes in Limbo, stationed right in the center of this enormous amount of energy" (pg. 17). In this way Sam's life is between Vietnam in the present. On one hand she is trying to find more information on her father, on the other she is focused on the life of a teenager and all the pop culture that goes with being young. The way the novel is written where it shifts between talking about the difficulty of the war to whats on HBO is like Sam's life where she desperately tries to ask Emmett and his veteran friends about the war on one page, and is talking about McDonald's and Pepsi on the next. This can also be used as a symbol of her age where she is not quite an adult,and yet not quite a child either. Like she said "Shes in Limbo". In this way the pop culture is her childhood while Vietnam and her interest in her father is like adulthood, she is stuck in the middle.
In Country serves as a sort of coming of age novel as much as a war novel. I was particularly agitated by Sam’s naivety throughout the book, especially when she read her father’s journal and camped in the swamp. However, while she may not have grown up entirely, she realizes that she will never really know what happened in the war. Her never ending curiosity and her quest to find out more knowledge about what really happened in Vietnam were driving forces behind the plot of the novel.
This novel takes place over ten years after the war. Some veterans have returned and resumed life as normal while some seem to struggle more than others. Sam lives in a town where people don’t look at veterans as though they’re normal. Even a veteran’s dance doesn’t draw much of a crowd of its own kind.
Throughout the book there’s references to the TV show M*A*S*H and Bruce Springsteen records. Such references ground the book in its time period. When Sam and Emmett watch M*A*S*H together, she feels as though she’s getting a look into what life might have been like for Emmett out in Vietnam. In reality, however, the satirical show was a sugar coated representation of what war might have been like. Bruce Springsteen’s album, Born in the USA, is generally about the hardships of life after the Vietnam War. This directly ties into In Country since the story revolves around a family affected by the war.
This novel takes place over ten years after the war. Some veterans have returned and resumed life as normal while some seem to struggle more than others. Sam lives in a town where people don’t look at veterans as though they’re normal. Even a veteran’s dance doesn’t draw much of a crowd of its own kind.
Throughout the book there’s references to the TV show M*A*S*H and Bruce Springsteen records. Such references ground the book in its time period. When Sam and Emmett watch M*A*S*H together, she feels as though she’s getting a look into what life might have been like for Emmett out in Vietnam. In reality, however, the satirical show was a sugar coated representation of what war might have been like. Bruce Springsteen’s album, Born in the USA, is generally about the hardships of life after the Vietnam War. This directly ties into In Country since the story revolves around a family affected by the war.
Tuesday, April 13, 2010
Blog 11 S.R
In the novel "In Country" by Bobbie Ann Mason its illustrates that its more than just a war story. This story doesnt focus on the horrible events that happens within a war. The book doesnt focus on the blood, the deaths, the gun shots keeping you up at night. This novel focus more on the family and friends of the men who are in the war. This gives the readers a different perspective since most war stories focus alot on the at the war. The main character or the protagonist of the story is Sam Hughes, the daughter of a soldier who was killed right before she was born in the summer of 1984. Sam spends alot of her time in Kentucky tryin to figure out the life of being in war my reading her fathers diaries and dealing with her uncles post tramtic stress disorders. Sams mother has been in and out of her life so her uncle is one of the few people that she has.
Sam trys to focus and comprehend the war but it becomes very difficult for her because the Novel starts the book ten years after the war end and at this time talk and concerns about the war is obviously dying out but will always be remember but its difficult to understand what really happend without actually being there during that time. Sam didnt fight in the war so of course she wouldnt fully understand it and even if she wasnt in the war, she wasnt old enough during the war to understand what was going on around her. She was just a baby when the war was starting to end. Sam also lives in a small town so the war is not as big as it would be in larger towns or states.
Sam and her uncle Emmett has an interesting relationship. The get closer throughout the book but she cant understand everything about him. She wonders why he sometimes drifts into his own space but it is something she learns how to deal with. They both learn things about themself and Emmit helps Sam learnn things about herself. Emmett and Sams grandmother go to D.C. to visit the Vietnam Veteran Memorial. This gave tribute to all the men and women that were lost in the war and just going through the memorial made them realize themselfs as people and question who they were and where they came from.
Its hard for Sam to connect to Emmit sometimes because they live or spent most of their time in two different worlds. Pop Culture plays a big role in Sams life. She is interested in the music and anything that has to do with the war. Emmett and Sam watch MASH together but they both look at it from different perspectives. Emmett responds to it better because he can relate to it on a personal level. Sam just looks at it as if it was the vietnam war.
Sam trys to focus and comprehend the war but it becomes very difficult for her because the Novel starts the book ten years after the war end and at this time talk and concerns about the war is obviously dying out but will always be remember but its difficult to understand what really happend without actually being there during that time. Sam didnt fight in the war so of course she wouldnt fully understand it and even if she wasnt in the war, she wasnt old enough during the war to understand what was going on around her. She was just a baby when the war was starting to end. Sam also lives in a small town so the war is not as big as it would be in larger towns or states.
Sam and her uncle Emmett has an interesting relationship. The get closer throughout the book but she cant understand everything about him. She wonders why he sometimes drifts into his own space but it is something she learns how to deal with. They both learn things about themself and Emmit helps Sam learnn things about herself. Emmett and Sams grandmother go to D.C. to visit the Vietnam Veteran Memorial. This gave tribute to all the men and women that were lost in the war and just going through the memorial made them realize themselfs as people and question who they were and where they came from.
Its hard for Sam to connect to Emmit sometimes because they live or spent most of their time in two different worlds. Pop Culture plays a big role in Sams life. She is interested in the music and anything that has to do with the war. Emmett and Sam watch MASH together but they both look at it from different perspectives. Emmett responds to it better because he can relate to it on a personal level. Sam just looks at it as if it was the vietnam war.
Blog 11 MW
Bobbie Ann Mason's In Country is much more than just your typical war story. It does not focus on the gruesome and vivid horrors of being on the frontlines. But rather, it focuses on the effects the war has on the family and friends of the soldiers fighting. It is a book about growing up and finding ones true self. We read about a young girl name Samantha Hughes who lives with her Uncle Emmett and grandma, Mawmaw. Emmett is a Vietnam veteran who suffers from PTSD, and like we've seen is so many other cases, finds it hard to live a normal day to day life. Sam's father was also in the war but he never returned home. Sam's mother is a widow who eventually remarries and has a baby. She moves with her new family to Lexington and leaves Sam with Emmett and Mawmaw. This just briefly shows us how war not only affects those fighting in, but their families as well.
The setting and time is very important to this novel. It takes place is 1984 which is about 10 years after the war was over. This just goes to show that even 10 years after the war people are still struggling to live their lives normally. We also must take into consideration that, if it takes place is 1984 it is not told from personal experience in Vietnam. It is a story told by a girl who was affected by what happened but was not there.
Pop culture plays a large role in this book as well. Sam listens to Bruce Springsteen and The Beatles, both of which were very popular in the 80's. Sam and Emmett also watch MASH which is a show about a medical team in the Korean War. Even still, when Emmett watches it, it brings back bad memories from the Vietnam War. People used these as an escape mechanism. The music was a way to express their feelings without having to involve other people and the television show, although it brought back memories, helped to cope with their feelings as well. These were also common ground for both Sam and Emmett. It was something they had in common and something that brought them even closer together than they already were.
The setting and time is very important to this novel. It takes place is 1984 which is about 10 years after the war was over. This just goes to show that even 10 years after the war people are still struggling to live their lives normally. We also must take into consideration that, if it takes place is 1984 it is not told from personal experience in Vietnam. It is a story told by a girl who was affected by what happened but was not there.
Pop culture plays a large role in this book as well. Sam listens to Bruce Springsteen and The Beatles, both of which were very popular in the 80's. Sam and Emmett also watch MASH which is a show about a medical team in the Korean War. Even still, when Emmett watches it, it brings back bad memories from the Vietnam War. People used these as an escape mechanism. The music was a way to express their feelings without having to involve other people and the television show, although it brought back memories, helped to cope with their feelings as well. These were also common ground for both Sam and Emmett. It was something they had in common and something that brought them even closer together than they already were.
Monday, April 12, 2010
MS IN COUNTRY
In Country is a book in which not just one but many characters are affected by the Vietnam War. The protagonist's father died in the war and she never had a chance to meet him. The protagonist lives with her uncle who survived the war and returned. The book is written from Sam's perspective and expresses her constant struggle to find out more about the war. However, no one tells her about the war and everyone seems to be trying to forget about it.
Popular Culture brings the setting forward in this book. It is the first book in which they constantly refer to popular restaurant chains, music and television shows. This role of popular culture in the book is important because it shows that while Vietnam was devastated by the war, around the same time, America was booming with fast growing economy and culture.
Sam tries to have Emett, a Vietnam War veteran tell her about the war, but he tells her not to keep thinking about it. Sam insists that Emmet's acne problems have been caused by Agent Orange and encourages him to see a doctor. The doctor however laughs at the thought of it being Agent Orange.
It is ironic that the book's title is In Country because this usually means at war or in the battle field. I think this title reflects that Emett and Sam are both still In Country because they cannot get over the war. Also the meaning of Bruce Springsteen's Born in the U.S.A. song plays a role because he expresses the embarassment the U.S.A. should be feeling about the Vietnam War.
Popular Culture brings the setting forward in this book. It is the first book in which they constantly refer to popular restaurant chains, music and television shows. This role of popular culture in the book is important because it shows that while Vietnam was devastated by the war, around the same time, America was booming with fast growing economy and culture.
Sam tries to have Emett, a Vietnam War veteran tell her about the war, but he tells her not to keep thinking about it. Sam insists that Emmet's acne problems have been caused by Agent Orange and encourages him to see a doctor. The doctor however laughs at the thought of it being Agent Orange.
It is ironic that the book's title is In Country because this usually means at war or in the battle field. I think this title reflects that Emett and Sam are both still In Country because they cannot get over the war. Also the meaning of Bruce Springsteen's Born in the U.S.A. song plays a role because he expresses the embarassment the U.S.A. should be feeling about the Vietnam War.
Blog#11: IC-RGV
Apart from a war novel, Bobbie Ann Mason's In Country can be viewed as an illustration of an outsider's attempt to understand the Vietnam War. The protagonist of the novel, Sam Hughes, is the daughter of a Vietnam veteran who died shortly before her birth. The manner in which Sam's life plays out is a direct consequence of her father's untimely death in the war. She lives in a small town in Kentucky with her uncle Emmett, a veteran of the same war, who struggles daily to cope with his experience and keep himself together. Sam's mother is mostly absent from her life; she lives in Lexington apart from her daughter. The protagonist reads her father's diaries, but she cannot understand his point of view. She also has trouble reasoning with Emmett's post-traumatic stress disorder to which she is constantly exposed. Due to her circumstances, Sam acquires a fascination for the Vietnam War in an attempt to understand veterans such as her father and uncle.
Despite her repeated efforts to comprehend the war and the ways in which it shaped the people around her, Sam is at a significant disadvantage because of the time and setting of the novel. The novel takes place approximately ten years after the end of the war and, thus, emphasizes the effects it had on not only the people directly involved but generations to come. Throughout In Country, the protagonist is passing through her late teenage years during the mid 80s in a small Kentucky town. First and foremost, Sam did not fight in the Vietnam War and, therefore, can never fully understand a Vietnam War veteran's perspective. Second, she was not old enough during the time of the war to retain knowledge of its effects on the American people. Lastly, Sam lives in a small town in the middle of the United States that, in many respects, is disconnected from the war more so than larger cities on the East Coast because of its lack of concentration on the war and services offered to its veterans.
The protagonist is also a teenage daughter of a dead American soldier rather than an actual soldier. The novel, therefore, deals more with the disconnect between the American citizen and the Vietnam veteran from the citizen's perspective. In this respect, her interest in the Vietnam War is uncommon and under appreciated because of its disparity from the average teenager girl's interests. Her fascination is also different from most other film and literature concerning the war in the sense that the American people are usually portrayed as not caring to understand the veteran. On the contrary, Sam longs for understanding of why Emmett and her father did the things they did and feel the way they feel.
There is an extensive amount of popular culture portrayed in Mason's novel because its presence illustrates the lasting effect the Vietnam War had on American culture. The fact that hugely famous artists such as Bruce Springsteen wrote and played songs in reference to the war show its significance and controversy. Although the war has been over for nearly ten years, the country had yet to physically or emotionally let go of its content and consequences. Emmett and Sam's frequent viewing of M*A*S*H conveys the idea that the American people thought that war was a concept that they needed to understand and expose themselves to in a sense.
The mention of popular culture in relation to the lives of Vietnam War veterans illustrates a method used by veterans to re-connect themselves with a part of their life that they cannot escape. Like Willard in Apocalypse Now, some veterans wish to return to the jungle where they can experience the rush of battle and danger. These veterans have trouble adjusting to life when they return home because they no longer receive the same emotions day in and day out; home life seems boring to them. Popular culture like the Beatles, Bruce Springsteen, and M*A*S*H serves as a way for veterans to return to a time period in which they still feel as though they are stuck.
Despite her repeated efforts to comprehend the war and the ways in which it shaped the people around her, Sam is at a significant disadvantage because of the time and setting of the novel. The novel takes place approximately ten years after the end of the war and, thus, emphasizes the effects it had on not only the people directly involved but generations to come. Throughout In Country, the protagonist is passing through her late teenage years during the mid 80s in a small Kentucky town. First and foremost, Sam did not fight in the Vietnam War and, therefore, can never fully understand a Vietnam War veteran's perspective. Second, she was not old enough during the time of the war to retain knowledge of its effects on the American people. Lastly, Sam lives in a small town in the middle of the United States that, in many respects, is disconnected from the war more so than larger cities on the East Coast because of its lack of concentration on the war and services offered to its veterans.
The protagonist is also a teenage daughter of a dead American soldier rather than an actual soldier. The novel, therefore, deals more with the disconnect between the American citizen and the Vietnam veteran from the citizen's perspective. In this respect, her interest in the Vietnam War is uncommon and under appreciated because of its disparity from the average teenager girl's interests. Her fascination is also different from most other film and literature concerning the war in the sense that the American people are usually portrayed as not caring to understand the veteran. On the contrary, Sam longs for understanding of why Emmett and her father did the things they did and feel the way they feel.
There is an extensive amount of popular culture portrayed in Mason's novel because its presence illustrates the lasting effect the Vietnam War had on American culture. The fact that hugely famous artists such as Bruce Springsteen wrote and played songs in reference to the war show its significance and controversy. Although the war has been over for nearly ten years, the country had yet to physically or emotionally let go of its content and consequences. Emmett and Sam's frequent viewing of M*A*S*H conveys the idea that the American people thought that war was a concept that they needed to understand and expose themselves to in a sense.
The mention of popular culture in relation to the lives of Vietnam War veterans illustrates a method used by veterans to re-connect themselves with a part of their life that they cannot escape. Like Willard in Apocalypse Now, some veterans wish to return to the jungle where they can experience the rush of battle and danger. These veterans have trouble adjusting to life when they return home because they no longer receive the same emotions day in and day out; home life seems boring to them. Popular culture like the Beatles, Bruce Springsteen, and M*A*S*H serves as a way for veterans to return to a time period in which they still feel as though they are stuck.
Blog 11 CG
"In Country" is much more than a typical war novel. Most war books focus more on combat, but this one puts alot more focus on how war affects family and friends. Sam's life has been very much influenced by the Vietnam War. Her father was killed in combat and she now lives with her Uncle Emmott who also saw time on the front lines. Her mother has remarried and births a new baby girl to whom she pays most of her attention. Both of them are alienated from people they love, and in this way they can relate.
This is a story about self-discovery. Sam is on a self search throughout this book in many aspects. She sees the Vietnam War as a shaping force in her life. It has taken her father and heavily influenced her Uncle who she spends her time at home with. On her self-search, Sam reads through her father's journal. She wants to learn everything she can about the Vietnam War to try and fully comprehend it. She also talks extensively to her Uncle. After this search into the past, she comes to terms that she can never fully understand the war.
Popular culture plays a large role in the relationship between Sam and Uncle Emmot. For them, it serves as an area of common ground to which they can relate and disucss. The two of them always watch MASH together. For Emmott, he can relate because he was a part of the war and knows what its like to be a soldier. Sam can appriciate this because it gives her another angle (the humorous one) on the Vietnam War.
The setting of this book is very important. It is set in Kentucky in the year 1984. This year is extremely important because it is a couple years after the War is over and all living veterans are back at home. This book deals with the effects of war on home life, so this is crucial.
This is a story about self-discovery. Sam is on a self search throughout this book in many aspects. She sees the Vietnam War as a shaping force in her life. It has taken her father and heavily influenced her Uncle who she spends her time at home with. On her self-search, Sam reads through her father's journal. She wants to learn everything she can about the Vietnam War to try and fully comprehend it. She also talks extensively to her Uncle. After this search into the past, she comes to terms that she can never fully understand the war.
Popular culture plays a large role in the relationship between Sam and Uncle Emmot. For them, it serves as an area of common ground to which they can relate and disucss. The two of them always watch MASH together. For Emmott, he can relate because he was a part of the war and knows what its like to be a soldier. Sam can appriciate this because it gives her another angle (the humorous one) on the Vietnam War.
The setting of this book is very important. It is set in Kentucky in the year 1984. This year is extremely important because it is a couple years after the War is over and all living veterans are back at home. This book deals with the effects of war on home life, so this is crucial.
Blog 11 AEE In Country
In Country by Bobbie Ann Mason is not only a war novel; it is also a coming-of-age story for Sam Hughes. Sam is a young girl whose father was killed in the Vietnam War before she met him, and she has chosen to live with her veteran Uncle Emmett. It’s a coming-of-age novel because the reader follows Sam through many growing experiences, such as battling harsh rumors from the town about Emmett and her. She eventually comes to find herself and her family identity when she sees her father’s name as well as her own name on the Vietnam memorial. The reader watches Sam grow from a naïve, curious high school girl into a matured, informed person.
This novel is significantly different from all the other texts we’ve seen as it takes place over a decade after the war. This shows the strength of the effect which the war had on America. Years later, in another country, the war is still confusing and destroying relationships. The town that Emmett and Sam lived in was one which was educated on and highly aware of PTSD. It is not often that we see a town profiled that is so concerned with Veterans. Jim, a local Veteran is trying to gather up and generate support for the Veterans but it is an uphill battle. The town seems to whisper behind their backs and the veterans themselves cannot even get along. The setting of the book is important in this aspect because we come to see a new layer of difficulties that lay within the aftermath of the war.
The protagonist, Sam, is very interested in two cultural subjects, the war and music of the 60s. She is interested in the war first and foremost because of the presence of Emmett and the lack of her father in her life, but she also has a rare appreciation for the 60s band such as the Beatles. The music and TV references tie into the theme of war in the novel because it represents a disconnection between America’s current understanding of the war and the actualities of battle. Emmett and Sam watch M*A*S*H* together, and despite it being focused on the Korean War, Sam still looks at it as though it is the Vietnam War. Also, Sam and her friends idolize the patriotic song by Bruce Springsteen, despite their differing views on the Vietnam War. America was against the soldiers and their cruelty, while Sam sees eye to eye with them.
This novel is significantly different from all the other texts we’ve seen as it takes place over a decade after the war. This shows the strength of the effect which the war had on America. Years later, in another country, the war is still confusing and destroying relationships. The town that Emmett and Sam lived in was one which was educated on and highly aware of PTSD. It is not often that we see a town profiled that is so concerned with Veterans. Jim, a local Veteran is trying to gather up and generate support for the Veterans but it is an uphill battle. The town seems to whisper behind their backs and the veterans themselves cannot even get along. The setting of the book is important in this aspect because we come to see a new layer of difficulties that lay within the aftermath of the war.
The protagonist, Sam, is very interested in two cultural subjects, the war and music of the 60s. She is interested in the war first and foremost because of the presence of Emmett and the lack of her father in her life, but she also has a rare appreciation for the 60s band such as the Beatles. The music and TV references tie into the theme of war in the novel because it represents a disconnection between America’s current understanding of the war and the actualities of battle. Emmett and Sam watch M*A*S*H* together, and despite it being focused on the Korean War, Sam still looks at it as though it is the Vietnam War. Also, Sam and her friends idolize the patriotic song by Bruce Springsteen, despite their differing views on the Vietnam War. America was against the soldiers and their cruelty, while Sam sees eye to eye with them.
Blog 11 DRS
"In Country" is not a typical novel of war. While it is a "coming home" story for Sam's uncle, Emmett, it is also a coming of age story for the main character, Samantha Hughes. The story takes place in 1984, and chronicles Sam's investigation into her father's life and into the Vietnam War. Sam's father had been killed in Vietnam, yet she has no idea of what kind of person he was, nor any idea of the war. In the midst of this story, Sam is said to be "at a crossroads...in limbo, stationed right in the center of this enormous amount of energy" (17), which suggests her struggling transition from childhood to adulthood.
The book takes place in 1984, detailing life in the small town Hopewell, Kentucky, as well as a road trip to the Vietnam War Memorial in Washington D.C. This setting is important to the novel, since the small town suggests a close-knit community, and the year is only 10 years after the end of the war. The town has a sort of respect for veterans of the war, since many of them live there and have come home and more or less "transitioned" back into society, such as Emmett's friend Tom and Jim Holly, the local head of the Vietnam veterans organization.
Sam lives and takes care of her uncle Emmett, a Vietnam War veteran that suffers from PTSD. Emmett has a hard time transitioning fitting in with the rest of the community, which exemplifies the dramatic effect the war has had on his life. He can't hold down a steady job, and tries to forget memories of war by preoccupying himself with mundane tasks such as digging the ditch on the side of the house. Emmett says of himself “There’s something wrong with me. I’m damaged. It’s like something in the center of my heart is gone and I can’t get it back” (225).When pressed to reveal details of Vietnam and of her father, Emmett is reluctant. Eventually this culminates in Emmett yelling at Sam telling her she'll just never know. The final moments of the novel bring closure to Sam's investigation when she sees her own name on the Vietnam Memorial, bringing her closer to the war and to her father.
Pop culture has an immense presence in the novel. Sam and Emmett share an affinity for the show M*A*S*H, which although is about the Korean War, brought Sam some better understanding of war. Sam is also a big time Bruce Springsteen fan, whom recurs regularly throughout the novel. The novels epigraph comes from "Born in the USA" and says "ten years burning down the road, nowhere to run and got nowhere to go." This reflects the situation of many war veterans, emphasizing the alienation their war experiences have subjected them to. The novel also chronicles the rise of MTV and gossip magazines. These sort of note a transition of values in society, which stresses more importance on popularized cultural themes than it does on more traditional values such as care for the veterans.
The book takes place in 1984, detailing life in the small town Hopewell, Kentucky, as well as a road trip to the Vietnam War Memorial in Washington D.C. This setting is important to the novel, since the small town suggests a close-knit community, and the year is only 10 years after the end of the war. The town has a sort of respect for veterans of the war, since many of them live there and have come home and more or less "transitioned" back into society, such as Emmett's friend Tom and Jim Holly, the local head of the Vietnam veterans organization.
Sam lives and takes care of her uncle Emmett, a Vietnam War veteran that suffers from PTSD. Emmett has a hard time transitioning fitting in with the rest of the community, which exemplifies the dramatic effect the war has had on his life. He can't hold down a steady job, and tries to forget memories of war by preoccupying himself with mundane tasks such as digging the ditch on the side of the house. Emmett says of himself “There’s something wrong with me. I’m damaged. It’s like something in the center of my heart is gone and I can’t get it back” (225).When pressed to reveal details of Vietnam and of her father, Emmett is reluctant. Eventually this culminates in Emmett yelling at Sam telling her she'll just never know. The final moments of the novel bring closure to Sam's investigation when she sees her own name on the Vietnam Memorial, bringing her closer to the war and to her father.
Pop culture has an immense presence in the novel. Sam and Emmett share an affinity for the show M*A*S*H, which although is about the Korean War, brought Sam some better understanding of war. Sam is also a big time Bruce Springsteen fan, whom recurs regularly throughout the novel. The novels epigraph comes from "Born in the USA" and says "ten years burning down the road, nowhere to run and got nowhere to go." This reflects the situation of many war veterans, emphasizing the alienation their war experiences have subjected them to. The novel also chronicles the rise of MTV and gossip magazines. These sort of note a transition of values in society, which stresses more importance on popularized cultural themes than it does on more traditional values such as care for the veterans.
Blog 11 SAL
In Country by Bobbie Ann Mason is not only a novel about the Vietnam War but it is a novel about the journey to find one’s identity whether lost in war or newly discovered as a young women is growing. Bobbie Ann Mason began writing this novel in 1981, right about the time that the young children of the Vietnam veterans were coming of age just as the character Samantha Hughes is in the novel.
In Country describes the life of Sam as she is trying to discover who her father was and how he died; he was an American soldier who died before she was born. In trying to find out who her father is, she is also trying to discover who she is herself and how she relates to this war that she does not understand. Sam’s uncle, Emmett, is a Vietnam veteran, who has returned home and has PTSD. Sam and Emmett become close, but Sam cannot understand why Emmett cannot get a job and why he sometimes aimlessly drifts off into space. It is not until the end of the novel that we see Sam realize that the war has had a huge impact on his life and indirectly on her own. These two characters discover their identities through their journeys together, especially Sam learning about herself through her uncle.
Mamaw, Sam’s grandmother, joins Sam and Emmett on a trip to Washington D.C. from their hometown in Kentucky to visit the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. They are taking this trip in the summer of 1984 and the novel was published in 1985. The time is important because it represents a generation of lost men and women who are lost in the memories and secrets of the Vietnam War that affected so many of their parents or relatives. As these men and women are “coming of age” they are questioning who they are and where they came from; more importantly who were those men who fought and were forever lost in Vietnam.
The role of popular culture is an important aspect to this novel because it gives the novel a natural flow and a sense of comfort when traveling through this journey of self discovery. The constant references to McDonalds, Holiday Inns, and Country Kitchens show that society has started to forget about the affects of the Vietnam War. It shows that the next generation will not understand the full impact of the war because the natural flow of life has continued; life is normal. But for those like Emmett, life is not normal; he is not connected to the pop-cultural references in this book. He is disconnected to this world just as Sam is disconnected to his world.
In Country describes the life of Sam as she is trying to discover who her father was and how he died; he was an American soldier who died before she was born. In trying to find out who her father is, she is also trying to discover who she is herself and how she relates to this war that she does not understand. Sam’s uncle, Emmett, is a Vietnam veteran, who has returned home and has PTSD. Sam and Emmett become close, but Sam cannot understand why Emmett cannot get a job and why he sometimes aimlessly drifts off into space. It is not until the end of the novel that we see Sam realize that the war has had a huge impact on his life and indirectly on her own. These two characters discover their identities through their journeys together, especially Sam learning about herself through her uncle.
Mamaw, Sam’s grandmother, joins Sam and Emmett on a trip to Washington D.C. from their hometown in Kentucky to visit the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. They are taking this trip in the summer of 1984 and the novel was published in 1985. The time is important because it represents a generation of lost men and women who are lost in the memories and secrets of the Vietnam War that affected so many of their parents or relatives. As these men and women are “coming of age” they are questioning who they are and where they came from; more importantly who were those men who fought and were forever lost in Vietnam.
The role of popular culture is an important aspect to this novel because it gives the novel a natural flow and a sense of comfort when traveling through this journey of self discovery. The constant references to McDonalds, Holiday Inns, and Country Kitchens show that society has started to forget about the affects of the Vietnam War. It shows that the next generation will not understand the full impact of the war because the natural flow of life has continued; life is normal. But for those like Emmett, life is not normal; he is not connected to the pop-cultural references in this book. He is disconnected to this world just as Sam is disconnected to his world.
mgb Blog 11
Blog 11- In Country
The focus of this novel, In Country, by Bobby Ann Mason was not the war itself, but rather the long term effects of the war. It also analyzes the search for identity and the quest for a young girl to find her place in the absence of her father. This novel offered a different perspective of the war. Because the story is told from the perspective of a teenage girl, Sam Hughes, we get a different look at how people thought about the war. Sam’s connection was that her father was a deceased Vietnam War veteran.
The novel analyzes the perceptions of the war through the pop culture that Sam delves into. Sam seems to romanticize the war and her father’s role in it. Her veteran Uncle Emmet shields her from the true horrors, so she gets her education from M*A*S*H and other Hollywood versions. Mason uses symbols of patriotic pop like Bruce Springsteen to show how the perceptions are changing. She writes, “Bruce Springsteen is facing the flag, as though studying it, trying to figure out its meaning” (236). Bruce Springsteen had a huge influence over America’s patriotism in the 80’s. His music explored a way to unite people and explain the aftermath of the war and its effect on the country. Same is also trying to find explanation. Sam does not understand the war or why her father died. She does not understand how inaccurate the media captures the war, 15 years after its ended.
Aside from her obsession with the war, Sam is struggling with her place in life. She does not live with her mother and cares for her Uncle Emmet, trying to convince him he has been affected by Agent Orange. The more people deter her from exploring her connection with the war the more she seems to pursue it. Her uncle tells her, “Don’t fret too much over this Vietnam thing, Sam” (57). The point is not discovering what actually occurred as much as learning about her father so she will not be misplaced. Sam story parallels the experience of war veterans, because she is a misplaced person. People ignore her efforts of understanding in the same way they ignored the risk men took in war.
This novels time period was significant to the story and perception of the war. In the 80’s, the children of Vietnam War veterans tried to define the war and learn through pop culture. Even though Sam was more isolated in Kentucky from anti-war protests, she was still able to experience MTV, created in 1981. The novel combines the struggles of a teenage girl to the effects of war through the lenses like pop culture and time period. Bobby Ann Mason wanted to convey the message that what happens in the past should not be forgotten.
The focus of this novel, In Country, by Bobby Ann Mason was not the war itself, but rather the long term effects of the war. It also analyzes the search for identity and the quest for a young girl to find her place in the absence of her father. This novel offered a different perspective of the war. Because the story is told from the perspective of a teenage girl, Sam Hughes, we get a different look at how people thought about the war. Sam’s connection was that her father was a deceased Vietnam War veteran.
The novel analyzes the perceptions of the war through the pop culture that Sam delves into. Sam seems to romanticize the war and her father’s role in it. Her veteran Uncle Emmet shields her from the true horrors, so she gets her education from M*A*S*H and other Hollywood versions. Mason uses symbols of patriotic pop like Bruce Springsteen to show how the perceptions are changing. She writes, “Bruce Springsteen is facing the flag, as though studying it, trying to figure out its meaning” (236). Bruce Springsteen had a huge influence over America’s patriotism in the 80’s. His music explored a way to unite people and explain the aftermath of the war and its effect on the country. Same is also trying to find explanation. Sam does not understand the war or why her father died. She does not understand how inaccurate the media captures the war, 15 years after its ended.
Aside from her obsession with the war, Sam is struggling with her place in life. She does not live with her mother and cares for her Uncle Emmet, trying to convince him he has been affected by Agent Orange. The more people deter her from exploring her connection with the war the more she seems to pursue it. Her uncle tells her, “Don’t fret too much over this Vietnam thing, Sam” (57). The point is not discovering what actually occurred as much as learning about her father so she will not be misplaced. Sam story parallels the experience of war veterans, because she is a misplaced person. People ignore her efforts of understanding in the same way they ignored the risk men took in war.
This novels time period was significant to the story and perception of the war. In the 80’s, the children of Vietnam War veterans tried to define the war and learn through pop culture. Even though Sam was more isolated in Kentucky from anti-war protests, she was still able to experience MTV, created in 1981. The novel combines the struggles of a teenage girl to the effects of war through the lenses like pop culture and time period. Bobby Ann Mason wanted to convey the message that what happens in the past should not be forgotten.
Blog 11 SN
The novel In Country by Bobbie Ann Mason a unique way of portraying the Vietnam War unlike anything we have discussed before. In this novel, the author uses a young teenage girl named Samantha Hughes who is trying to find out who she really is, and where she came from. The novel takes place in Kentucky in the early 1980’s. Sam’s father was a soldier during Vietnam and was killed in action. She never knew him, but has heard many stories about him. With little support from her mother, she lives with her uncle Emmett, who suffers from PTSD as well as defects to his body by chemicals used in the war.
One of the problems that Sam deals with growing up through this novel is her identity. First, there is what she wants to do with the rest of her life. Her mother insists that she go to college at the University of Kentucky, but Sam would prefer Murray State. On p. 55 Sam says, “ I told you I didn’t want to go to UK. I’m going back to work at the Burger Boy.” Not only does this show her indecision on her next move in life, but it also shows Sam being naïve. She mentions how it’s not necessarily going to get you a better job. Her mother has the experience of working like a slave because she didn’t go to college, but Sam does not bother with her warnings. Whether she wants to believe it or not, her mother has gone through many of the same situations as Sam, providing valuable advice. Also, to top off her lack of knowledge about herself, Emmett brings to her attention that Samantha was her name because of her father, not her mother. This brings controversy as she calls her mother. She says on p. 56, “You never told me anything-about him, or about Vietnam. You always wanted to forget it, like it never happened. I think that’s why you gave up on Emmett.” Not only is Sam going through a tough time of finding her identity, she now has to deal with lies from her mom which only make it worse. Throughout the novel she refers to her mom as Irene. This is interesting, because not only is she without a father, but her relationship with her mother is strained too. Vietnam did not only affect soldiers.
Sam’s closest relative, Emmett, is dealing with PTSD and post war health issues which makes Sam very interested in learning about Vietnam. With Emmett’s heartburn and acne, she claims it is because of exposure to Agent Orange. Emmett avoids the idea though, trying to avoid Vietnam at all costs. Also, he has headache issues that could be related as well. When they go toward the creek with Sam and Lonnie, Emmett freaks out. Emmett says,” Hurry, I can’t stand this.”(p. 38) He was completely freaked out by this swamp because it was very similar to Vietnam. This shows the Vietnam version of the novel because it directly affected Emmett, as opposed to the indirect affect toward Sam. Mason does a good job of showing the vast problems and situations created by the Vietnam War.
The setting of the novel is very important because it takes place in an area where everyone knows about the affairs of everyone else. Since Emmett dealt with severe PTSD problems following the war with some of his veteran buddies, the whole area blamed him for these problems. In an area where there is not a high amount of traffic and commotion, it is able to see PTSD problems more clearly. When there is less to do, smaller things that may not have been noticed before come to center stage. The entire area felt the PTSD that Emmett was also feeling. Also, the time setting is interesting because it is a few years after the war, so there have been developments like books and films on the war. Information is more accessible. Even though no book is as good as a story from a veteran itself, information is easy to access so it makes Sam’s problem a little bit better. The only problem is with all this information; it is still hard to change the minds of stubborn veterans.
Throughout the novel, many times it is mentioned about Bruce Springsteen’s upcoming tour Born in the USA. And even though Sam and her friends talk about how much they love the song, it is contrary to the feeling following the Vietnam War. Protesters were not proud of their soldiers for being from the USA, but rather, they scolded and berated them as if they did something wrong. It is ironic that the people are so crazy over a song about being patriotic, when just ten or so years earlier, they were not only disappointed, but indeed angry at their soldiers. In fact, they should be proud of what these soldiers did, not mad because it didn’t turn out as expected.
One of the problems that Sam deals with growing up through this novel is her identity. First, there is what she wants to do with the rest of her life. Her mother insists that she go to college at the University of Kentucky, but Sam would prefer Murray State. On p. 55 Sam says, “ I told you I didn’t want to go to UK. I’m going back to work at the Burger Boy.” Not only does this show her indecision on her next move in life, but it also shows Sam being naïve. She mentions how it’s not necessarily going to get you a better job. Her mother has the experience of working like a slave because she didn’t go to college, but Sam does not bother with her warnings. Whether she wants to believe it or not, her mother has gone through many of the same situations as Sam, providing valuable advice. Also, to top off her lack of knowledge about herself, Emmett brings to her attention that Samantha was her name because of her father, not her mother. This brings controversy as she calls her mother. She says on p. 56, “You never told me anything-about him, or about Vietnam. You always wanted to forget it, like it never happened. I think that’s why you gave up on Emmett.” Not only is Sam going through a tough time of finding her identity, she now has to deal with lies from her mom which only make it worse. Throughout the novel she refers to her mom as Irene. This is interesting, because not only is she without a father, but her relationship with her mother is strained too. Vietnam did not only affect soldiers.
Sam’s closest relative, Emmett, is dealing with PTSD and post war health issues which makes Sam very interested in learning about Vietnam. With Emmett’s heartburn and acne, she claims it is because of exposure to Agent Orange. Emmett avoids the idea though, trying to avoid Vietnam at all costs. Also, he has headache issues that could be related as well. When they go toward the creek with Sam and Lonnie, Emmett freaks out. Emmett says,” Hurry, I can’t stand this.”(p. 38) He was completely freaked out by this swamp because it was very similar to Vietnam. This shows the Vietnam version of the novel because it directly affected Emmett, as opposed to the indirect affect toward Sam. Mason does a good job of showing the vast problems and situations created by the Vietnam War.
The setting of the novel is very important because it takes place in an area where everyone knows about the affairs of everyone else. Since Emmett dealt with severe PTSD problems following the war with some of his veteran buddies, the whole area blamed him for these problems. In an area where there is not a high amount of traffic and commotion, it is able to see PTSD problems more clearly. When there is less to do, smaller things that may not have been noticed before come to center stage. The entire area felt the PTSD that Emmett was also feeling. Also, the time setting is interesting because it is a few years after the war, so there have been developments like books and films on the war. Information is more accessible. Even though no book is as good as a story from a veteran itself, information is easy to access so it makes Sam’s problem a little bit better. The only problem is with all this information; it is still hard to change the minds of stubborn veterans.
Throughout the novel, many times it is mentioned about Bruce Springsteen’s upcoming tour Born in the USA. And even though Sam and her friends talk about how much they love the song, it is contrary to the feeling following the Vietnam War. Protesters were not proud of their soldiers for being from the USA, but rather, they scolded and berated them as if they did something wrong. It is ironic that the people are so crazy over a song about being patriotic, when just ten or so years earlier, they were not only disappointed, but indeed angry at their soldiers. In fact, they should be proud of what these soldiers did, not mad because it didn’t turn out as expected.
Blog 11 TJM
The novel In Country is the first one that we have read that deals more with the home life after the war than the war itself. This novel does not deal with soldiers directly, but more how the war and their involvement has effected their family since they have returned. Sam's father never returned from war, widowing her mother who had since remarried. This shook up Sam's life when her mother moved away to Lexington with her new husband and new baby. Sam lives with her uncle Emmett, who is also a war veteran. Sam and her uncle take care of each other and in a way they ware both outcasts. Sam's mother left with her new family to live their lives in another town. Sam's mom has a new baby daughter and it seems as though her mother has just brushed her aside and forgotten about her. Sam has decided to stay behind and take care of Emmett, who is also an outcast, but is not bothered because he is a veteran.Sam worries that her uncle is suffering from the aftereffects of exposure to Agent Orange, which was a chemical used to defoliate the jungle in the Vietnam War. Throughout most of the book we see her trying to get him to get checked out and she constantly asks friends what their opinions are.
We find that Sam is very curious about her father, since she never met him. She constantly asks her uncle and his other veteran buddies about her father and the war. She never seems to get more than how he was a good guy and lucky man to have died so quickly, until she talks to his mother, Mamaw. Mamaw says the same things about her father, then gives her his notebook which was returned with his personal effects. When Sam reads the diary she is disgusted. She had always known that as a soldier he carried a weapon, but now knew that he had killed someone. This sickened Sam, especially the vivid descriptions that her father gave. When she finally reaches the memorial she doesn't know what to say or do. This is just another example of how the horrors of war take away live and the new memories they might share with others.
We also see lots of pop culture in this book, especially that which surrounded the war. The Beatles and Bruce Springsteen were popular in 1984, the time in which the story is set. Sam listens to her mothers old Beatles records and wondered if their music could have helped the war effort. "If they had understood English, maybe music would have won the war"(111). She says many times that music brings people together. Sam and Emmett also watch MASH together. It is a show bout an army medical group in the Korean War, but many of the episodes remind Emmett of something he saw or did in Vietnam. They make sure they watch this together every time it is on and we see just how strong the bond is between the two and how this television show kind of bridges the gap between his experience in Vietnam and what she thinks she knows about war.
We find that Sam is very curious about her father, since she never met him. She constantly asks her uncle and his other veteran buddies about her father and the war. She never seems to get more than how he was a good guy and lucky man to have died so quickly, until she talks to his mother, Mamaw. Mamaw says the same things about her father, then gives her his notebook which was returned with his personal effects. When Sam reads the diary she is disgusted. She had always known that as a soldier he carried a weapon, but now knew that he had killed someone. This sickened Sam, especially the vivid descriptions that her father gave. When she finally reaches the memorial she doesn't know what to say or do. This is just another example of how the horrors of war take away live and the new memories they might share with others.
We also see lots of pop culture in this book, especially that which surrounded the war. The Beatles and Bruce Springsteen were popular in 1984, the time in which the story is set. Sam listens to her mothers old Beatles records and wondered if their music could have helped the war effort. "If they had understood English, maybe music would have won the war"(111). She says many times that music brings people together. Sam and Emmett also watch MASH together. It is a show bout an army medical group in the Korean War, but many of the episodes remind Emmett of something he saw or did in Vietnam. They make sure they watch this together every time it is on and we see just how strong the bond is between the two and how this television show kind of bridges the gap between his experience in Vietnam and what she thinks she knows about war.
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