The documentary Fog of War depicts the life of former Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara. His eleven lessons are used as guidelines in describing his experiences in life, which include: growing up during World War I, being a part of the Cuban Missile Crisis, his involvement in World War II, and his actions of the Vietnam War. While McNamara does not directly say that this film is a film to rationalize his actions while Secretary of Defense, it seems this way particularly with the last five lessons. This film is a documentary to rationalize and apologize for his actions as his life is coming to an end.
McNamara explains that these eleven lessons are rules that are used when making decisions about World War II and the Vietnam War. Although this film is a rationalization of his actions, he does admit that he did make some wrong decisions. The first six lessons – empathize with the enemy, rationality will not save us, there is something beyond oneself, maximize efficiency, proportionality should be a guideline in war, and get data – are all rules for life and war. The seventh lesson, belief and seeing are both often wrong, is where the major shift occurs. At this lesson and beyond, he shifts to rationalizing his actions and almost defending everything he says rather than giving rules for war and life as in the previous six lessons.
The fifth lesson is not a shift in ideas, but it is a shift in tone. Proportionality should be a guideline in war is the fifth lesson, and McNamara uses it to discuss the morality of war; saying that he would rather use a bomb and kill innocent people then send in his own soldiers across the sea to fight. Citing proportionality as a justification to killing so many innocent people in Vietnam rather than focusing on the military personnel. McNamara said that proportionality was about hurting the enemy the most, not necessarily killing the most military soldiers; killing civilians was hurting the enemy the most.
This film is a film in defense of McNamara’s actions as Secretary of Defense, and he does this through his eleven life lessons, but his rationalizations are questioned; particularly those in reference to Agent Orange. Regardless, McNamara uses this film as a way to justify his actions to the public because war is a fog, so complex that humans cannot understand it clearly.
Saturday, April 24, 2010
Thursday, April 22, 2010
Blog 12 TJM
The documentary Fog of War brings us the life and lessons of former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara. The film is angled around the decisions he made during the Vietnam War. To me the whole film feels as though he is trying to rationalize the decisions he made during that time. An example of his rationalizations is the firebombing of Tokyo. The decision led to the death of over 100,000 Japanese, but McNamara said it was one of those decisions made in the "Fog of War." He also goes on to say that if America had lost the war they would have been tried as war criminals because the bombing was essentially acts of war, nonetheless they needed to be done to save American lives.
McNamara explains his eleven points as guidelines he follows. In 2-4, rationality will not save us, there's something beyond oneself, and maximize efficiency, we see life lessons. These three lesson seem to be points that one could use in everyday life. We see the first shift as he moves on to lessons 5-8. These lessons deal with warfare, especially number 5, proportionality should be a guideline in war. Its obvious that he didn't follow his own lesson when he ordered the bombing of Tokyo. The second shift in his reasoning comes in the last three, 9-11. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil, never say never, and you cant change human nature, all seem to deal with rationalizations. It seems to me that McNamara is rationalizing with himself that he could not help the decisions he made, they had to be done.
Hindsight seems to play a big role in this documentary as well. McNamara looks back on events and tells of his decisions, knowing he cannot change them but looking back seeing a new light. He also spoke of the Fog of War. The decisions made at the time were all made in a time when all you could count on was the fact that no matter what decision was made lives were going to be lost. Through the whole interview McNamara seemingly tries to repent for the thing that he did and the decisions that were made that cost hundreds of thousands of lives in the Vietnam War.
McNamara explains his eleven points as guidelines he follows. In 2-4, rationality will not save us, there's something beyond oneself, and maximize efficiency, we see life lessons. These three lesson seem to be points that one could use in everyday life. We see the first shift as he moves on to lessons 5-8. These lessons deal with warfare, especially number 5, proportionality should be a guideline in war. Its obvious that he didn't follow his own lesson when he ordered the bombing of Tokyo. The second shift in his reasoning comes in the last three, 9-11. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil, never say never, and you cant change human nature, all seem to deal with rationalizations. It seems to me that McNamara is rationalizing with himself that he could not help the decisions he made, they had to be done.
Hindsight seems to play a big role in this documentary as well. McNamara looks back on events and tells of his decisions, knowing he cannot change them but looking back seeing a new light. He also spoke of the Fog of War. The decisions made at the time were all made in a time when all you could count on was the fact that no matter what decision was made lives were going to be lost. Through the whole interview McNamara seemingly tries to repent for the thing that he did and the decisions that were made that cost hundreds of thousands of lives in the Vietnam War.
Blog 12 ARB
In The Fog of War Robert McNamara explains to viewers his life experiences as the Secretary of Defense during the Cold War, Cuban Missile Crisis, and part of Vietnam, also his involvement in WWII and how he was the first ever president of the Ford Motor Company who wasn't part of the family. This film explains 11 rules about war and gives reason why some people make the decisions they do while in combat.
The 11 Rules are:
1. Empathize with the enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond oneself
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
McNamara explains to us that these rules can and are used when people make war decisions such as dropping the atomic bomb in world war two or using agent orange in Vietnam, but he does acknowledge we have made some wrong decisions. One idea that he brings up is proportionality which was not seen during the fire bombing of Tokyo. McNamara argues that proportionality should be part of war so that we don't kill 100,000 women and children and men in one night. We shouldn't be killing innocent people in order to win the war. I is clear the McNamara used these guidelines and he suggests that everyone should use them, but really main guidelines are the first six rules as they specifically pertain to actions in the war and the last five rules is where we see a shift in McNamara's ideas because these five rules pertain more to human nature and explaining why people make the decisions that they do and there isn't much you can do to change it but trying to limit it or control it is what the first six rules do.
The 11 Rules are:
1. Empathize with the enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond oneself
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
McNamara explains to us that these rules can and are used when people make war decisions such as dropping the atomic bomb in world war two or using agent orange in Vietnam, but he does acknowledge we have made some wrong decisions. One idea that he brings up is proportionality which was not seen during the fire bombing of Tokyo. McNamara argues that proportionality should be part of war so that we don't kill 100,000 women and children and men in one night. We shouldn't be killing innocent people in order to win the war. I is clear the McNamara used these guidelines and he suggests that everyone should use them, but really main guidelines are the first six rules as they specifically pertain to actions in the war and the last five rules is where we see a shift in McNamara's ideas because these five rules pertain more to human nature and explaining why people make the decisions that they do and there isn't much you can do to change it but trying to limit it or control it is what the first six rules do.
Wednesday, April 21, 2010
Blog 12 CG
The Fog Of War is a documentary style film telling the story of Robert McNamara, former US Secretary of Defense. He talks about his experiences as president of Ford Motor Company during both World Wars and the Cuban Missle Crisis. These unforgettable events shaped his life. They taught him how to make choices in crisis situations, how to meet lifes challenges. He gives a list of eleven things that his lifes experience has brought him.
1. Empathize with the enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond oneself
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
Why bother making a set of rules anyways?I think McNamara used it as a way to explain his reasoning for his actions. I think he may feel the need to apologize to people for things that happened in the war during his time. He may feel responsible because he had such influence. Also, he was brought under a good amount of scrutiny on some of his decisions, and I think this may be his clairification or the explanation of his logic.
I think there are two definite idea shifts, making three idea groups. The first of the groups is the first three lessons. They all speak to the humanity side of the audience. Number three even brings up religious aspects, which is a huge part of human culture. The second group consists of lessons four through six. This group is very mechanical, basic, definite. "Maximize efficiency" seems almost robotic. The third and final group is made up of lessons seven through eleven. All these lessons were big picture ideas. They were more philosophical. For example, rule number nine brings up the idea of good vs evil. Also, the final lesson mentions human nature and change, two hot philosophical topics.
1. Empathize with the enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond oneself
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
Why bother making a set of rules anyways?I think McNamara used it as a way to explain his reasoning for his actions. I think he may feel the need to apologize to people for things that happened in the war during his time. He may feel responsible because he had such influence. Also, he was brought under a good amount of scrutiny on some of his decisions, and I think this may be his clairification or the explanation of his logic.
I think there are two definite idea shifts, making three idea groups. The first of the groups is the first three lessons. They all speak to the humanity side of the audience. Number three even brings up religious aspects, which is a huge part of human culture. The second group consists of lessons four through six. This group is very mechanical, basic, definite. "Maximize efficiency" seems almost robotic. The third and final group is made up of lessons seven through eleven. All these lessons were big picture ideas. They were more philosophical. For example, rule number nine brings up the idea of good vs evil. Also, the final lesson mentions human nature and change, two hot philosophical topics.
Blog#12:FoW-RGV
Through the interviews portrayed in Fog of War, Robert McNamara tells of some of the most significant parts of his life, and he describes how these moments lead into his participation in the Vietnam War as Secretary of Defense. McNamara discusses his education, his marriage, his military experience, and his job experience after college before introducing his role in the government and the topic of the war. The descriptions he offers of his earlier life give the audience background on the unfamiliar areas of his personal life as well as the setting in which he grew up and lived the majority of his life.
The reason for Robert McNamara's presence in the film is the fulfillment of his desire to defend his actions as Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam War. More than thirty years after the end of the war, most people recognize that a considerable amount of corruption was present within the US government at the time. It has become evident as time has progressed that much was kept from the American people in regard to the status of the war and the accomplishment of American troops. When dealing with this subject, two events that immediately come to mind are the My Lai massacre and the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Now that the public has been made aware of much of what truly took place in Vietnam, many people see numerous negative outcomes of the United States' participation in the war. This perspective has caused many people to wonder why American involved itself in this war and what positive purpose did it serve.
In attempt to justify his actions as Secretary of Defense, McNamara attempts to present his own perspective through his interviews in Fog of War. He explains that not all the knowledge that is available to the public now was available to him during the war. McNamara also attempts to portray his course of action as the right, ethical way of going about things given the circumstances he was in and the stress he was under. His interviews in this documentary are essentially composed of his personal rationalizations about his actions that aim to downplay the stark reality of the war and remove personal guilt that he still carries.
McNamara composes a list of eleven lessons that can be learned from his life experiences. There is a shift in the tone of these lessons after the first three lessons. The first three lessons, "empathize with your enemy, "rationality will not save us," and "there's something beyond one's self," deal with conceptual, ethical issues that one can encounter during life. He advises the audience to view problems from other perspectives in order to make good, moral decisions because of responsibilities people have to themselves and society. On the other hand, the next three lessons, "maximize efficiency," proportionality should be a guideline in war," and "get the data," are more concerned with quantitative, factual topics. In the documentary, numerous images of statistics are shown within these three lessons as to demonstrate the numbers used by government officials in wartime. These lessons also seem to deal with effective ways of waging war successfully. For example, McNamara discusses the necessity of firebombing 100,000 civilians despite its unethical nature. This lesson is an obvious representation of the self-contradiction present in McNamara's fourth, fifth, and sixth lessons because an argument cannot be made that the United States empathized with its enemy through its merciless killing of 100,000 noncombatants.
The reason for Robert McNamara's presence in the film is the fulfillment of his desire to defend his actions as Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam War. More than thirty years after the end of the war, most people recognize that a considerable amount of corruption was present within the US government at the time. It has become evident as time has progressed that much was kept from the American people in regard to the status of the war and the accomplishment of American troops. When dealing with this subject, two events that immediately come to mind are the My Lai massacre and the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Now that the public has been made aware of much of what truly took place in Vietnam, many people see numerous negative outcomes of the United States' participation in the war. This perspective has caused many people to wonder why American involved itself in this war and what positive purpose did it serve.
In attempt to justify his actions as Secretary of Defense, McNamara attempts to present his own perspective through his interviews in Fog of War. He explains that not all the knowledge that is available to the public now was available to him during the war. McNamara also attempts to portray his course of action as the right, ethical way of going about things given the circumstances he was in and the stress he was under. His interviews in this documentary are essentially composed of his personal rationalizations about his actions that aim to downplay the stark reality of the war and remove personal guilt that he still carries.
McNamara composes a list of eleven lessons that can be learned from his life experiences. There is a shift in the tone of these lessons after the first three lessons. The first three lessons, "empathize with your enemy, "rationality will not save us," and "there's something beyond one's self," deal with conceptual, ethical issues that one can encounter during life. He advises the audience to view problems from other perspectives in order to make good, moral decisions because of responsibilities people have to themselves and society. On the other hand, the next three lessons, "maximize efficiency," proportionality should be a guideline in war," and "get the data," are more concerned with quantitative, factual topics. In the documentary, numerous images of statistics are shown within these three lessons as to demonstrate the numbers used by government officials in wartime. These lessons also seem to deal with effective ways of waging war successfully. For example, McNamara discusses the necessity of firebombing 100,000 civilians despite its unethical nature. This lesson is an obvious representation of the self-contradiction present in McNamara's fourth, fifth, and sixth lessons because an argument cannot be made that the United States empathized with its enemy through its merciless killing of 100,000 noncombatants.
Blog #12 AEE
Fog of War, a film by Errol Morris, offers an alternative view to the harshly critiqued decisions involving foreign wars and tragic bombings. It is an hour and half long documentary featuring Robert McNamara, Secretary of Defense under Linden B. Johnson and JFK, who played arguably the most crucial role in making decisions concerning the Vietnam War as well as WWII bombings. The voices of the solders and the protestors overrule the voices of the politicians behind the decisions. McNamara is a statistical guy whose job sometimes demanded he calculate out how to cause the most destruction to a company. In this film McNamara speaks for all the politicians as he speaks to explain, justify and rationalize war decisions of the mid 20th century.
McNamara was only scheduled to be interviewed initially for a hour long special, but his interview transformed into an eight hour conversation. This film was made first of all because the topic was interesting. McNamara offers an alternative prospective on a highly controversial topic. Looking just at the initial interview that turned into an 8-hour conversation, it is clear that there is a lot to be exposed about these decisions. McNamara agreed to make this film because he was given almost two hours to talk through and explain things like the Cuban Missile Crisis and Agent Orange. Morris decided to make the documentary so that the viewers could discover the philosophy within the minds of the politicians that they harshly critique. Together they open up the viewer to a new outlook and whole new set of questions to ask regarding the “shoulds” of war. “What makes it moral if you win but immoral if you lose?” The film exposes the conflicts of interests and the double standards which politicians have to sort through to find what they reasonably feel is the best solution. I don’t believe though that the film is meant to justify the actions of war-time criminals (and arguably it doesn’t justify them) but rather give voice to an area that isn’t often heard first hand. Morris is also looking to make a statement about the uncertainty of right and wrong. By showing the viewer scenes like a collection of McNamara’s authorizing signatures, he is accentuating the blame that is often placed on the ex-secretary of defense. He does this not to put blame on McNamara but rather to bring to light the difficulty of justification.
McNamara battles through a lot of different emotions during the lengthy interview. Initially it seems as though he is presenting the logical, numerical side of the war-decisions. Statistics and equations which prove that, by some standard, the mass killings are okay. During the beginning we see lessons like #4 “Maximize Efficiency”. Shortly after though his point seems to get confused this is because he is stuck between pride, rationalization, guilt and denial. When he enters in Lesson # 7 “Belief and seeing are often both wrong”, and more importantly the Vietnam War he begins to tangent a bit. The reality that data isn’t 100% is exposed and therefore the platform behind all the violent war decisions is weakened. From here on McNamara seems to explain the war as it applies in life. The war truths become war-related life lessons, such as Lesson 10 “Never say Never”.
McNamara was only scheduled to be interviewed initially for a hour long special, but his interview transformed into an eight hour conversation. This film was made first of all because the topic was interesting. McNamara offers an alternative prospective on a highly controversial topic. Looking just at the initial interview that turned into an 8-hour conversation, it is clear that there is a lot to be exposed about these decisions. McNamara agreed to make this film because he was given almost two hours to talk through and explain things like the Cuban Missile Crisis and Agent Orange. Morris decided to make the documentary so that the viewers could discover the philosophy within the minds of the politicians that they harshly critique. Together they open up the viewer to a new outlook and whole new set of questions to ask regarding the “shoulds” of war. “What makes it moral if you win but immoral if you lose?” The film exposes the conflicts of interests and the double standards which politicians have to sort through to find what they reasonably feel is the best solution. I don’t believe though that the film is meant to justify the actions of war-time criminals (and arguably it doesn’t justify them) but rather give voice to an area that isn’t often heard first hand. Morris is also looking to make a statement about the uncertainty of right and wrong. By showing the viewer scenes like a collection of McNamara’s authorizing signatures, he is accentuating the blame that is often placed on the ex-secretary of defense. He does this not to put blame on McNamara but rather to bring to light the difficulty of justification.
McNamara battles through a lot of different emotions during the lengthy interview. Initially it seems as though he is presenting the logical, numerical side of the war-decisions. Statistics and equations which prove that, by some standard, the mass killings are okay. During the beginning we see lessons like #4 “Maximize Efficiency”. Shortly after though his point seems to get confused this is because he is stuck between pride, rationalization, guilt and denial. When he enters in Lesson # 7 “Belief and seeing are often both wrong”, and more importantly the Vietnam War he begins to tangent a bit. The reality that data isn’t 100% is exposed and therefore the platform behind all the violent war decisions is weakened. From here on McNamara seems to explain the war as it applies in life. The war truths become war-related life lessons, such as Lesson 10 “Never say Never”.
Blog 12 MMW
The documentary The Fog of War is a film about a former US Secretary of Defense, Robert S. McNamara. McNamara discusses some of his experiences from childhood in World War II, The Cuban Missile Crisis, Working at the Ford Motor Company and the Vietnam War. This movie is broken up into 11 lessons that McNamara teaches. All of these lessons relate to war but can also be applied to real life.
The Eleven Lessons:
1. Empathize with your enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond one's self.
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
I believe that McNamara’s reasoning behind the film is to give an explanation to the actions he took in terms of the Vietnam War.
There is a shift in the lessons after lesson 5. The first five mostly pertain to war and how to go about it successfully. They are more like rules than lessons. They speak of fighting for ones country and realizing what you are there to do. Then next set of rules is a more general set of rules. It is about life in general. Lessons 7,8,and 10 are more mental lessons to live by. They are guidelines one must follow in order to stay sane throughout war.
The Eleven Lessons:
1. Empathize with your enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond one's self.
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
I believe that McNamara’s reasoning behind the film is to give an explanation to the actions he took in terms of the Vietnam War.
There is a shift in the lessons after lesson 5. The first five mostly pertain to war and how to go about it successfully. They are more like rules than lessons. They speak of fighting for ones country and realizing what you are there to do. Then next set of rules is a more general set of rules. It is about life in general. Lessons 7,8,and 10 are more mental lessons to live by. They are guidelines one must follow in order to stay sane throughout war.
Blog 12 SN
In the film Fog of War, McNamara talks about the Vietnam War and some of the decisions that he had to make during that time period. In the film, he talks about working during World War II, for the Ford Motor Company and during the Cuban Missile Crisis. During World War II, he talks about use of the Atomic Bomb, and how they could have been in deep trouble had they lost the war. Also, this leads to rule number 5 because sometimes there is no need to go overboard when it comes to sending a message. Often times in war many people are unnecessarily killed when less can be killed in order to send the same message. Also, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, he explains how no one was thinking clearly, which led to a very close brink of nuclear war. Most of all, it seems as though McNamara is trying to get people to understand his thought process before the Vietnam War and why it turned out the way it did. Many of his experiences before the Vietnam War led to some rash decisions like Tokyo.
The point at which the movie’s point of view changes is the 6th lesson. The first six lessons are more about war and the way in which to go about it. It seems to talk about fighting for your country and remembering that this war is bigger than just yourself. You want to work as one large team in order to be the best you can be as a military unit. Then after the 6th lesson, it goes to a more personal level. Some of them, like 7, 8, and 10 have to do with the mental aspect of war. Many times, war will mess with your mind, but these lessons must be learned in order to be successful. So, the lessons seem to rank from a larger level to a lower level. Whether these are ranked in importance is unclear, but it seems this way.
The point at which the movie’s point of view changes is the 6th lesson. The first six lessons are more about war and the way in which to go about it. It seems to talk about fighting for your country and remembering that this war is bigger than just yourself. You want to work as one large team in order to be the best you can be as a military unit. Then after the 6th lesson, it goes to a more personal level. Some of them, like 7, 8, and 10 have to do with the mental aspect of war. Many times, war will mess with your mind, but these lessons must be learned in order to be successful. So, the lessons seem to rank from a larger level to a lower level. Whether these are ranked in importance is unclear, but it seems this way.
BLOG 12
The film Fog of War by Morris is a documentary about the Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara. McNamara was involved in many American events in his life time and he speaks about his participation concerning World War II. He was the executive of Ford Motor Company. He narrates the story of the Vietnam War and talks about his eleven lessons that can relate to everyday life.
1. Empathize with your enemy
2. Rationality will not save us
3. There's something beyond one's self
4. Maximize efficiency
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in the war
6. Get the data
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong
8. Be prepared to re examine your reasoning
9. In order to good, you may need to engage in evil
10. Never say never
11. You cant change human nature
McNamara uses these lessons to justify and back up things that he does and says. He starts to talk about alot of the war in the beginning and lessons 1,4,5, and 6 have to do with the Vietnam War. He regrets the war but he also shows how he is morally affected by it. He shows his perspectives and shows the side of the government compared to the in country perspective. McNamara is very honest in the film. He shows death totals and graphic images. He talks about how soldiers should be honest with themselves and he admits on the mistakes that he made within the war. He admits that America didnt know how to handle this war and his job was to advice the president of foreign affairs but considers he didnt do a great job at that. His 11 ideas did not only relate to this war but all wars and how they could be affected.
1. Empathize with your enemy
2. Rationality will not save us
3. There's something beyond one's self
4. Maximize efficiency
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in the war
6. Get the data
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong
8. Be prepared to re examine your reasoning
9. In order to good, you may need to engage in evil
10. Never say never
11. You cant change human nature
McNamara uses these lessons to justify and back up things that he does and says. He starts to talk about alot of the war in the beginning and lessons 1,4,5, and 6 have to do with the Vietnam War. He regrets the war but he also shows how he is morally affected by it. He shows his perspectives and shows the side of the government compared to the in country perspective. McNamara is very honest in the film. He shows death totals and graphic images. He talks about how soldiers should be honest with themselves and he admits on the mistakes that he made within the war. He admits that America didnt know how to handle this war and his job was to advice the president of foreign affairs but considers he didnt do a great job at that. His 11 ideas did not only relate to this war but all wars and how they could be affected.
Blog 12 FY
The Fog of War is a documentary style film that chronicles the life and beliefs of former secretary of defense Robert McNamara. The movie uses old footage and recent interviews to depict the thought process of McNamara, particularly during the Vietnam war. I think in making this movie McNamara hoped to share his thought process with the American public. Its clear from the movie that he has a very polarized public opinion. There were scenes where he was called brilliant and there were some people who believed "he was a son of a bitch". I think he believed that many people judged him before understanding all the facts, and his goal in making this movie was probably to better inform the public about himself and the presidents he served under. In an ironic way, I think he wanted his opponents to follow his first rule of war which was "Empathise with your enemy".
Through the medium of film McNamara tried to project just how difficult his terms in office were. In the movie he said that although its easy to point out the mistakes the administration made in hindsight it was much more difficult back then. He made his decisions with the information he had available, and he says some times the Johnson administration did the wrong thing. McNamara is portrayed as a very intelligent guy in the film, he was top of his class and graduated from Harvard; however the war in Vietnam still failed despite the judgment of many geniuses.
I also think the movie tried to portray the stark contrast between data and real life. There were countless images in the film of collections of data and charts. I think this was purposely added to show that to the people making decisions war is all about numbers. They may be able to calculate the chance of success, but they can never feel what its like to actually be out there fighting. I think that is why presidential advisers were so optimistic going into Vietnam. The movie shows that the Americans believed that once our marines were sent in Vietnam would be in for hell. On paper it might seem like the US had a undebateble advantage, but things like dedication are impossible to measure. As the former Vietnamese minister once said to McNamara they were "prepared to fight to the last soldier". In the movie McNamara tried to show that their decisions were based around this data that the administration trusted.
I think that the ideas most shifted around lesson #6. This is when he started talking about getting the proper data, and I thought this was most applicable to his own life. Using the lesson I think he showed once again that getting accurate is very difficult, especially in times of war. Although he tried to gather all the necessary data much of it was subjective and thus invalid. For example when going into the war he said the US believed that the Vietnamese had attacked American naval vessels twice. However, this was later proven to be false. The guy detecting the missiles on sonar misinterpreted the information out of nervousness. Despite his error the data was still used to make the fatal decision to wage war against Vietnam. In this way I think McNamara stressed gathering accurate data from his own experiences. The next lessons are very self critical. The rest of the lessons are about true human nature and examine what constitutes an evil act. McNamara believes that to accomplish a goal for the greater good a person must sometimes follow a path of evil. I think this is how he viewed many of his decisions. Although he believed himself to be a moral person, many of his actions were evil and led to death and destruction. In one part of the film he even says that, had America lost the war to Japan, he could have easily been tried as a war criminal.
Through the medium of film McNamara tried to project just how difficult his terms in office were. In the movie he said that although its easy to point out the mistakes the administration made in hindsight it was much more difficult back then. He made his decisions with the information he had available, and he says some times the Johnson administration did the wrong thing. McNamara is portrayed as a very intelligent guy in the film, he was top of his class and graduated from Harvard; however the war in Vietnam still failed despite the judgment of many geniuses.
I also think the movie tried to portray the stark contrast between data and real life. There were countless images in the film of collections of data and charts. I think this was purposely added to show that to the people making decisions war is all about numbers. They may be able to calculate the chance of success, but they can never feel what its like to actually be out there fighting. I think that is why presidential advisers were so optimistic going into Vietnam. The movie shows that the Americans believed that once our marines were sent in Vietnam would be in for hell. On paper it might seem like the US had a undebateble advantage, but things like dedication are impossible to measure. As the former Vietnamese minister once said to McNamara they were "prepared to fight to the last soldier". In the movie McNamara tried to show that their decisions were based around this data that the administration trusted.
I think that the ideas most shifted around lesson #6. This is when he started talking about getting the proper data, and I thought this was most applicable to his own life. Using the lesson I think he showed once again that getting accurate is very difficult, especially in times of war. Although he tried to gather all the necessary data much of it was subjective and thus invalid. For example when going into the war he said the US believed that the Vietnamese had attacked American naval vessels twice. However, this was later proven to be false. The guy detecting the missiles on sonar misinterpreted the information out of nervousness. Despite his error the data was still used to make the fatal decision to wage war against Vietnam. In this way I think McNamara stressed gathering accurate data from his own experiences. The next lessons are very self critical. The rest of the lessons are about true human nature and examine what constitutes an evil act. McNamara believes that to accomplish a goal for the greater good a person must sometimes follow a path of evil. I think this is how he viewed many of his decisions. Although he believed himself to be a moral person, many of his actions were evil and led to death and destruction. In one part of the film he even says that, had America lost the war to Japan, he could have easily been tried as a war criminal.
Blog 12 ABM
The Fog of War is a movie that details the life of Secratary of Defense Robert Macnamera. It shows how critical events he lived through such as both world wars, the Cuban Missle Crisis, being president of the Ford Motor Company and Vietnam shaped his life and his policies while he was acting as the Secratary of Defense. In the movie Macnamera highlighted 11 points that he used to guide his desision making during times of crisis.
I noticed that the first five points that were more applicable to soldiers and the next six seemed to be more applicable to commanders. The first point is to empathize with your enemy. This is something that all soldiers should do. This prevents horrific acts such as the My Lai masacar. War crimes would drop dramatically and war would be more humane if soldiers treated the enemy like human beings and not just animals that can be tortured, beaten and put down. The second point is another important point for a soldier to know. They cannot always rely on rationality to save them especially in times of war. As we have learned from the books we have read everything is permitted in war and what soldiers thought was right could be wrong and vise versa. Soldiers need to approach each situation differently and think outside of the box to survive. The third point is there is something beyond ones self. This is another great point for a soldier to know. Every action that they make has consiquenses that effect many more people then just them. Every enemy they kill affects the family of the dead soldier back home. Every airstrike they call in could kill hundreds of innocents. Soldiers need to consider the consiquences of their actions at all times during battle. The fourth point is maximizing efficiency. One thing that occured during Vietnam was extreme waste. Soldiers wasted everything from ammunition to time by cutting corners and treating the war like a vacation. Soldiers need to be cool and do their jobs and missions or they will surely fail as they did in Vietnam. War is not a joke and something to be taken lightly. The final point that seems to apply to soldiers that Macnamera made while he was a soldier is keep in mind proportionality. During war soldiers should not be excessive in the damage they cause. This will often cause civilians to turn against and hate them. Also, proportionality will reduce waste and increase efficiency.
The final six points seem to be formed after he became a commander and Secratary of Defense. Point six is to get the data. This is something that command needs to do efficiently. If they do not know the enemy and its positions, strength and how it is supplied and its strategy they cannot win. It seems that in Vietnam this rule was broken because the United States greatly underestimated the enemy. The next point is belief and seeing are both wrong. This point is another point inreference to the Vietnam war and seems to try and explain what went wrong. Despite the high body counts and the fact that the United States seemed to be pushing the North Vietnamese back they still managed to lose the war. The reports were grossly over estimated and contradicted what was actually going on in country. Number eight is an excellent point and possibly one of the ones that Macnamera focuses on when he discusses his regrets of the war. Number nine is be prepared to rethink your reasoning. Many of the generals were convinced that there was no way that America could lose the war. They also employed battle strategies that worked in previous wars such as World War 2 and the Korean War thinking that the strategies that won those wars would work in Vietnam two. They failed to take into account the terrain, enemy and climate differences. Towards then end Macnamera began reavaluating the battle stragies and eventually realized that the war was futile and that America had no business being there. Number nine is it is necessary to commit evil acts to do good. This is saying war is a necessay evil and that during war evils like murdering occur so that innocents are protected. This also justifies the dropping of agent orange. Even Macnamera admits that he knew it would cause a lot of damage but at the time it was worth the damage. Later he retracts that statement because of all the lasting effects that it caused.
This film seemed to be largely and explanation of Macnamera's thought process for his actions. Also, the second half of the movie seemed to be an apology for some of the actions in the Vietnam war.
I noticed that the first five points that were more applicable to soldiers and the next six seemed to be more applicable to commanders. The first point is to empathize with your enemy. This is something that all soldiers should do. This prevents horrific acts such as the My Lai masacar. War crimes would drop dramatically and war would be more humane if soldiers treated the enemy like human beings and not just animals that can be tortured, beaten and put down. The second point is another important point for a soldier to know. They cannot always rely on rationality to save them especially in times of war. As we have learned from the books we have read everything is permitted in war and what soldiers thought was right could be wrong and vise versa. Soldiers need to approach each situation differently and think outside of the box to survive. The third point is there is something beyond ones self. This is another great point for a soldier to know. Every action that they make has consiquenses that effect many more people then just them. Every enemy they kill affects the family of the dead soldier back home. Every airstrike they call in could kill hundreds of innocents. Soldiers need to consider the consiquences of their actions at all times during battle. The fourth point is maximizing efficiency. One thing that occured during Vietnam was extreme waste. Soldiers wasted everything from ammunition to time by cutting corners and treating the war like a vacation. Soldiers need to be cool and do their jobs and missions or they will surely fail as they did in Vietnam. War is not a joke and something to be taken lightly. The final point that seems to apply to soldiers that Macnamera made while he was a soldier is keep in mind proportionality. During war soldiers should not be excessive in the damage they cause. This will often cause civilians to turn against and hate them. Also, proportionality will reduce waste and increase efficiency.
The final six points seem to be formed after he became a commander and Secratary of Defense. Point six is to get the data. This is something that command needs to do efficiently. If they do not know the enemy and its positions, strength and how it is supplied and its strategy they cannot win. It seems that in Vietnam this rule was broken because the United States greatly underestimated the enemy. The next point is belief and seeing are both wrong. This point is another point inreference to the Vietnam war and seems to try and explain what went wrong. Despite the high body counts and the fact that the United States seemed to be pushing the North Vietnamese back they still managed to lose the war. The reports were grossly over estimated and contradicted what was actually going on in country. Number eight is an excellent point and possibly one of the ones that Macnamera focuses on when he discusses his regrets of the war. Number nine is be prepared to rethink your reasoning. Many of the generals were convinced that there was no way that America could lose the war. They also employed battle strategies that worked in previous wars such as World War 2 and the Korean War thinking that the strategies that won those wars would work in Vietnam two. They failed to take into account the terrain, enemy and climate differences. Towards then end Macnamera began reavaluating the battle stragies and eventually realized that the war was futile and that America had no business being there. Number nine is it is necessary to commit evil acts to do good. This is saying war is a necessay evil and that during war evils like murdering occur so that innocents are protected. This also justifies the dropping of agent orange. Even Macnamera admits that he knew it would cause a lot of damage but at the time it was worth the damage. Later he retracts that statement because of all the lasting effects that it caused.
This film seemed to be largely and explanation of Macnamera's thought process for his actions. Also, the second half of the movie seemed to be an apology for some of the actions in the Vietnam war.
Blog 12 AKB
The film Fog of War features former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara. In this documentary, McNamara, at age 85, attempts to explain and justify his actions in war, namely the Vietnam War. He understands that no matter what he says, he will always be criticized, yet he makes this film in order to give a clearer depiction of what was going on in America at the time. Through the film, he also wishes to prove how the Vietnam War was wrong. He provides the audience with numerous examples of what went wrong in the war. For example, killing was not minimized, but rather consisted of many more deaths than were necessary. Also, McNamara describes how even America's own allies did not agree with their actions in Vietnam. He asserts that when this is true, then America should "reexamine" its initiatives. He also discusses how he left his office under President Lyndon B. Johnson, after having served under President John F. Kennedy. McNamara urged Johnson to pull out of Vietnam, but Johnson was adament about staying in the war.
There is a point in McNamara's lessons when the ideas shift, which is when he goes from giving lessons about life in general, to giving lessons about war. Lesson #4, which is to "Maximize efficiency," and Lesson #5 is "Proportionality should be a guideline in war." During these lessons, McNamara begins going into detail about the deaths inflicted by Americans on their enemies. In one instance, American soldiers killed 100,000 people in Tokyo in order to get ahead in the war. The idea was to maximize deaths in order to make weakening the enemy more efficient. He argues that there was little proportionality in these killings, and he asserts that America should have tried harder to minimize deaths. He also argues that whether or not the U.S. won the war, soldiers' actions would have been immoral either way.
At around Lesson #7, which is "Belief and seeing are both often wrong," McNamara goes into discussion about the Vietnam War, specifically. He says that the American government and the military leaders who were for the war saw what they wanted to believe. For example, President Johnson urged on fighting and involvement in Vietnam, drawing out the inevitable loss for America. He also asserts that "You can't change human nature," which is his 11th Lesson. What he means by this is that humans will always be prone to war and fighting, but he urges people to minimize war when faced with it. His belief that the war was an unjust one, and that America should have come out of it much earlier, was the main reason for why he resigned during the Johnson Administration.
There is a point in McNamara's lessons when the ideas shift, which is when he goes from giving lessons about life in general, to giving lessons about war. Lesson #4, which is to "Maximize efficiency," and Lesson #5 is "Proportionality should be a guideline in war." During these lessons, McNamara begins going into detail about the deaths inflicted by Americans on their enemies. In one instance, American soldiers killed 100,000 people in Tokyo in order to get ahead in the war. The idea was to maximize deaths in order to make weakening the enemy more efficient. He argues that there was little proportionality in these killings, and he asserts that America should have tried harder to minimize deaths. He also argues that whether or not the U.S. won the war, soldiers' actions would have been immoral either way.
At around Lesson #7, which is "Belief and seeing are both often wrong," McNamara goes into discussion about the Vietnam War, specifically. He says that the American government and the military leaders who were for the war saw what they wanted to believe. For example, President Johnson urged on fighting and involvement in Vietnam, drawing out the inevitable loss for America. He also asserts that "You can't change human nature," which is his 11th Lesson. What he means by this is that humans will always be prone to war and fighting, but he urges people to minimize war when faced with it. His belief that the war was an unjust one, and that America should have come out of it much earlier, was the main reason for why he resigned during the Johnson Administration.
Blog 12 CJ
The documentary, Fog of War, portrays the life of Robert McNamara while also giving insight into America’s politics. McNamara makes the film to explain and justify his actions as a politician. He uses eleven lessons as a framework for basing his arguments. Through McNamara’s responses and emotions, the viewer can understand he is troubled by many of the choices he made as the Secretary of State during the Vietnam War. He does not want to take full responsibility of many of his actions that killed thousands of people. McNamara uses lesson number nine, “in order to do good, you may have to engage in evil”, as a guideline to justify his actions. An example of using this lesson was the bombing of Tokyo, which he viewed as a necessary evil. Despite the high death toll and destruction of a city, McNamara still feels as though there was good that came out of the situation. He justifies this by saying their goal was not to kill the most people, but to do what would hurt the enemy the most. McNamara clearly feels guilty for many of the events that happened during the war and must deny much of the blame. McNamara does not admit to authorizing the use of Agent Orange and he rejects the accusation by saying that he does not remember if he authorized it or not. McNamara also expresses his disappointment in the American government for the confusion that was happening during the time. This is seen when he discusses the Gulf of Tonkin and how the military was confused with whether or not the ship was attacked. McNamara is a man who understands statistics and what could be done to maximize efficiency, an idea that was displayed throughout his career.
Through each different lesson, multiple topics were discussed. In the first few lessons of the documentary, McNamara seemed mostly concerned with the statistics of the matter, not necessarily the deeper meaning behind decisions that were made. Also, many of the first lessons discuss McNamara’s younger years, such as working with the ford motor company. Lesson number seven, “belief and seeing are both often wrong”, shows how often leaders can be completely wrong with what both they believe is right and what they have seen. This was the case of the United States ship that was allegedly attacked. This lesson marks a point where McNamara’s thought process beings to change. The idea of efficiency and statistics is replaced for analysis of the reasoning for killing and war. Leading off this analysis is lesson eight which states “be prepared to examine your reasoning”. In this section he discusses the use of Agent Orange and whether or not it is a war crime. McNamara says, “Now what kind of law do we have that says these chemicals are acceptable for use in war and these chemicals are not. We don't have clear definitions of that kind”. Just because it is not a crime does not mean that the harm was not done. This once again leads back to McNamara’s claim that to do good you may have to do evil. In order to connect all lessons and ideas, McNamara ends with, “You can’t change human nature”. He believes that war will never end and that it is part of nature for humans to fight and to kill. He does not condone killing, but believes that it is inevitable. Despite this fact, McNamara says, “And we kill people unnecessarily”. Despite the rationality and analysis of war, it is clear that people will always be killed for unjust reasons.
Through each different lesson, multiple topics were discussed. In the first few lessons of the documentary, McNamara seemed mostly concerned with the statistics of the matter, not necessarily the deeper meaning behind decisions that were made. Also, many of the first lessons discuss McNamara’s younger years, such as working with the ford motor company. Lesson number seven, “belief and seeing are both often wrong”, shows how often leaders can be completely wrong with what both they believe is right and what they have seen. This was the case of the United States ship that was allegedly attacked. This lesson marks a point where McNamara’s thought process beings to change. The idea of efficiency and statistics is replaced for analysis of the reasoning for killing and war. Leading off this analysis is lesson eight which states “be prepared to examine your reasoning”. In this section he discusses the use of Agent Orange and whether or not it is a war crime. McNamara says, “Now what kind of law do we have that says these chemicals are acceptable for use in war and these chemicals are not. We don't have clear definitions of that kind”. Just because it is not a crime does not mean that the harm was not done. This once again leads back to McNamara’s claim that to do good you may have to do evil. In order to connect all lessons and ideas, McNamara ends with, “You can’t change human nature”. He believes that war will never end and that it is part of nature for humans to fight and to kill. He does not condone killing, but believes that it is inevitable. Despite this fact, McNamara says, “And we kill people unnecessarily”. Despite the rationality and analysis of war, it is clear that people will always be killed for unjust reasons.
PAB BLOG 12
The Fog Of War is a documentary of what seems to be Robert S. MacNamera’s attempt to reconcile his past mistakes. The length of the film consisted of MacNamera’s explanations of actions and decisions made by him and the American government. The film is divided into eleven lessons. These lessons were derived from retrospective observation of the actions in the Vietnam War but most of them can theoretically be applied to any situation.
Lessons one to four, observed at a shallow depth, appear to be reasonable methods for succeeding in war. His first two lessons, about the reality of empathy and luck, are reasonable and disconnected from the evils of war. Lesson four approaches a stronger connectivity with the evil of war when MacNamera discusses the night when 100,000 Tokyo civilians were killed. This same event leads into lesson five, which reveals the true monstrosity of what happened in the Vietnam War. In order to kill those 100,000 people, fire bombing was necessary. This proportionality between the numbers of deaths on opposing sides of war represents a change in MacNamera’s change in subject tone.
His views seem to change at lesson seven as well. This lesson, “belief and seeing are both often wrong”, is explained by the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. From this lesson onward, the lessons pertain to human flaws and mistakes. The lessons include reexamining your reasoning, doing evil in order to do good, and to persist. The final lesson says “you can’t change human nature”. MacNamera lists flaws that manifest themselves during time of war. He is aware of these flaws because he was a major example of them all. He attempts to save himself by explaining that these are regular human flaws and you can’t change it. In the interview, MacNamera says “We all make mistakes. We know we make mistakes. I don't know any military commander, who is honest, who would say he has not made a mistake. There's a wonderful phrase: 'the fog of war.' What 'the fog of war' means is: war is so complex it's beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend all the variables. Our judgment, our understanding, are not adequate. And we kill people unnecessarily.”
By the end of The Fog Of War it has become apparent that Robert Strange MacNamera tries to save face by blaming his actions on unfortunate human nature and not his personally flawed decision making.
Lessons one to four, observed at a shallow depth, appear to be reasonable methods for succeeding in war. His first two lessons, about the reality of empathy and luck, are reasonable and disconnected from the evils of war. Lesson four approaches a stronger connectivity with the evil of war when MacNamera discusses the night when 100,000 Tokyo civilians were killed. This same event leads into lesson five, which reveals the true monstrosity of what happened in the Vietnam War. In order to kill those 100,000 people, fire bombing was necessary. This proportionality between the numbers of deaths on opposing sides of war represents a change in MacNamera’s change in subject tone.
His views seem to change at lesson seven as well. This lesson, “belief and seeing are both often wrong”, is explained by the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. From this lesson onward, the lessons pertain to human flaws and mistakes. The lessons include reexamining your reasoning, doing evil in order to do good, and to persist. The final lesson says “you can’t change human nature”. MacNamera lists flaws that manifest themselves during time of war. He is aware of these flaws because he was a major example of them all. He attempts to save himself by explaining that these are regular human flaws and you can’t change it. In the interview, MacNamera says “We all make mistakes. We know we make mistakes. I don't know any military commander, who is honest, who would say he has not made a mistake. There's a wonderful phrase: 'the fog of war.' What 'the fog of war' means is: war is so complex it's beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend all the variables. Our judgment, our understanding, are not adequate. And we kill people unnecessarily.”
By the end of The Fog Of War it has become apparent that Robert Strange MacNamera tries to save face by blaming his actions on unfortunate human nature and not his personally flawed decision making.
Blog 12 SJC
The film The Fog of War is a documentary the details many different parts of former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara's life. The film takes the viewer through his upbringing and discusses his involvement with Harvard, Ford Motor Company, WW1, WW2, the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Vietnam War. The film is split up based on the eleven lessons McNamara wants to share with the world.
McNamara's reason for the film is to advise the rest of the world about how to handle a war.From his time as Defense Secretary and in other positions of power, McNamara has realized that it is inevitable that humans will make mistakes and will engage in war but hopes in providing these lessons that the amount of death and destruction can be decreased. I also think he uses the film as a way to explain why certain events unfolded the way they did and what he learned through his experiences. Through the film, McNamara is able to provide an explanation for his actions as Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam War, something he was unable to do before.
In terms of the lessons, there is a clear point where the ideas behind the lessons shift. This point occurs when he introduces the Vietnam War during lesson six. Up until lesson six, the lessons deal almost specifically with war and what should be done with war in order to have a better end result. Starting with lesson six, the lessons begin to take on a more philosophical approach and can apply to more than just war but to life as well. They are lessons that should be considered in everyday life when making important decisions. These lessons seem to be aimed at those who are in a position of power and who have the ability to decide the outcome of thousands of human lives to help them make better decisions and to show them that their original thoughts may not always be right . While speaking about each of the lessons, McNamara takes a reflective standpoint, admitting that he made mistakes in terms of each of the lessons and taking responsibility for certain actions that occured in order to show that even a person such as him, someone who was extremely knowledgeable about the Vietnam War, can make mistakes.
McNamara's reason for the film is to advise the rest of the world about how to handle a war.From his time as Defense Secretary and in other positions of power, McNamara has realized that it is inevitable that humans will make mistakes and will engage in war but hopes in providing these lessons that the amount of death and destruction can be decreased. I also think he uses the film as a way to explain why certain events unfolded the way they did and what he learned through his experiences. Through the film, McNamara is able to provide an explanation for his actions as Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam War, something he was unable to do before.
In terms of the lessons, there is a clear point where the ideas behind the lessons shift. This point occurs when he introduces the Vietnam War during lesson six. Up until lesson six, the lessons deal almost specifically with war and what should be done with war in order to have a better end result. Starting with lesson six, the lessons begin to take on a more philosophical approach and can apply to more than just war but to life as well. They are lessons that should be considered in everyday life when making important decisions. These lessons seem to be aimed at those who are in a position of power and who have the ability to decide the outcome of thousands of human lives to help them make better decisions and to show them that their original thoughts may not always be right . While speaking about each of the lessons, McNamara takes a reflective standpoint, admitting that he made mistakes in terms of each of the lessons and taking responsibility for certain actions that occured in order to show that even a person such as him, someone who was extremely knowledgeable about the Vietnam War, can make mistakes.
Blog 12 DRS
"Fog of War" is a documentary featuring Robert McNamara, and chronicles his experiences as Secretary of Defense of the Vietnam war, experiences with the Cuban Missile Crisis, and as president of Ford Motor Company. The documentary is composed of 11 lessons to apply in times of war or when considering entering a war, but they could also be applied to everyday life. I believe McNamara's reasoning for being a part of this documentary is two-fold: 1) He truly believes war to be an increasingly dangerous proposition, and that we are at a point in time where we need to consider how war can easily lead into a nuclear conflict; and 2) as a sort of apology for his former decisions and actions--an attempt to absolve himself of his sins at an old age.
Throughout the documentary there are are several parts in which there seem to be a shift in the lessons. Lessons 1-3, "Empathize with your enemy," "Rationality will not save us," and "There is something beyond one's self" seem to be everyday rationalizations and realities which can be applied throughout one's life. The next 3-4 lessons seem to deal with war itself, focusing on the numerics and statistics and efficiency of that need to be taken into account before and during an engagement of war. The final 4-5 lessons seem to try to rationalize the war and serve more or less as McNamara's apology for his acts as Secretary of Defense. In all, these three shifts serve as an interesting perspective into not just the Vietnam War, but war in and of itself from Robert McNamara, one of the most hated men in America at the time (and even to this day).
Throughout the documentary there are are several parts in which there seem to be a shift in the lessons. Lessons 1-3, "Empathize with your enemy," "Rationality will not save us," and "There is something beyond one's self" seem to be everyday rationalizations and realities which can be applied throughout one's life. The next 3-4 lessons seem to deal with war itself, focusing on the numerics and statistics and efficiency of that need to be taken into account before and during an engagement of war. The final 4-5 lessons seem to try to rationalize the war and serve more or less as McNamara's apology for his acts as Secretary of Defense. In all, these three shifts serve as an interesting perspective into not just the Vietnam War, but war in and of itself from Robert McNamara, one of the most hated men in America at the time (and even to this day).
Blog 11 The Fog of War RGL
The Fog of War details the life of former secretary of defense Robert McNamara through many momentous events in the nations history including both World Wars, the Cold War and the Vietnam War. From these experiences, McNamara draws 11 lessons:
#1-Empathize with your enemy
#2-Rationality will not save us
#3-There's something beyond one's self
#4-Maximize efficiency
#5-Proportionality should be a guideline in war
#6-Get the data
#7-Belief and seeing are often both wrong
#8-Be prepared to re-examine your reasoning
#9-In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil
#10-Never say never
#11-You can't change human nature
As the film progresses McNamara takes us through the lessons as they flow with his life. He created this film in order to help explain his views on war and how they have progressed through history. This film helps him to explain the point of the war, and to help understand why things occured as they did, and what he took from it. Furthermore, it gives him a voice to proclaim his view of the war.
A shift can be seen in the overall idea of the film after the fifth lesson. Here is when McNamara makes the transition from a soldier, commanding forces, to one living back home. It can be seen as the transition back. The following lessons are more life lessons as opposed to the rules of war that are initially put forth. This film makes a transition from a war documentary, to one that provides lessons, and instructions for those who did not experience war. In both sets though, McNamara works to inform the viewer about what truly happened as opposed to reading through a textbook.
#1-Empathize with your enemy
#2-Rationality will not save us
#3-There's something beyond one's self
#4-Maximize efficiency
#5-Proportionality should be a guideline in war
#6-Get the data
#7-Belief and seeing are often both wrong
#8-Be prepared to re-examine your reasoning
#9-In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil
#10-Never say never
#11-You can't change human nature
As the film progresses McNamara takes us through the lessons as they flow with his life. He created this film in order to help explain his views on war and how they have progressed through history. This film helps him to explain the point of the war, and to help understand why things occured as they did, and what he took from it. Furthermore, it gives him a voice to proclaim his view of the war.
A shift can be seen in the overall idea of the film after the fifth lesson. Here is when McNamara makes the transition from a soldier, commanding forces, to one living back home. It can be seen as the transition back. The following lessons are more life lessons as opposed to the rules of war that are initially put forth. This film makes a transition from a war documentary, to one that provides lessons, and instructions for those who did not experience war. In both sets though, McNamara works to inform the viewer about what truly happened as opposed to reading through a textbook.
Blog 12: DW
Morris' film, Fog of War, is a documentary about the life of former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara. McNamara talks about his life and the big American events he was involved in like World War II, being an executive at Ford Motor Company, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the Vietnam War. This film is centered around 11 key points that McNamara has uncovered throughout his experiences. They are:
1: Empathize with your enemy
2: Rationality will not save us
3. There's something beyond one's self
4. Maximize efficiency
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war
6. Get the data
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil
10. Never say never
11. You can't change human nature
McNamara uses these rules to sort of try and justify his actions throughout his life. He brings up many reasons that he did the things that he did, like he was just following orders or the cold war. Lessons 1, 4, 5, and 6 are about the keys and necessities of war. Each are important in their own ways to the success of a war. In addition to these lessons, he includes more philosophical lessons. He was involved in a lot of philosophy courses in school and thus incorporates lessons 2, 3, and 7 in. These lessons are more focused on indentifying characteristics of how people work and react to certain things that could negatively affect the outcome of the war and trying to correct those things before they do so. The final 4 lessons focus seem to be more based most on opinion than anything else. He uses these to illustrate the way war has a way to be misunderstood easily and incomprehensible by most. Things happen in war that nobody expected could happen and that people see as inexcusable. He seems to go against lesson 9 when talking about Vietnam because nothing good came of the Vietnam War and so much evil was committed.
I found this film largely to be an apology for some of his actions that were not the smartest or "right" he could have made. He is making an attempt to explain what caused him to make the decisions that he did, but realized that there are so many things that go into making serious decisions like that that nobody can truly or fully understand. He brings up the point that he and other officials probably would have been tried as war criminals if they had not won the war because of the things they ordered be done. One example is of the firebombing campaigns in Japan. He tries to bring the devastation into perspective by comparing what was destroyed in Japan to the equivalent of cities in the US like New York, Chicago, and Las Angeles. In retrospect, some decisions look like the wrong ones, but at the time he thought he was doing what was in the best interest of the country.
1: Empathize with your enemy
2: Rationality will not save us
3. There's something beyond one's self
4. Maximize efficiency
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war
6. Get the data
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil
10. Never say never
11. You can't change human nature
McNamara uses these rules to sort of try and justify his actions throughout his life. He brings up many reasons that he did the things that he did, like he was just following orders or the cold war. Lessons 1, 4, 5, and 6 are about the keys and necessities of war. Each are important in their own ways to the success of a war. In addition to these lessons, he includes more philosophical lessons. He was involved in a lot of philosophy courses in school and thus incorporates lessons 2, 3, and 7 in. These lessons are more focused on indentifying characteristics of how people work and react to certain things that could negatively affect the outcome of the war and trying to correct those things before they do so. The final 4 lessons focus seem to be more based most on opinion than anything else. He uses these to illustrate the way war has a way to be misunderstood easily and incomprehensible by most. Things happen in war that nobody expected could happen and that people see as inexcusable. He seems to go against lesson 9 when talking about Vietnam because nothing good came of the Vietnam War and so much evil was committed.
I found this film largely to be an apology for some of his actions that were not the smartest or "right" he could have made. He is making an attempt to explain what caused him to make the decisions that he did, but realized that there are so many things that go into making serious decisions like that that nobody can truly or fully understand. He brings up the point that he and other officials probably would have been tried as war criminals if they had not won the war because of the things they ordered be done. One example is of the firebombing campaigns in Japan. He tries to bring the devastation into perspective by comparing what was destroyed in Japan to the equivalent of cities in the US like New York, Chicago, and Las Angeles. In retrospect, some decisions look like the wrong ones, but at the time he thought he was doing what was in the best interest of the country.
Blog 12 JCP
Fog of War is a film about U.S. Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara professional life and experiences with including World War I and II, The Cuban Missle Crisis, running Ford Motor Company, and the Vietnam War. Looking back on what he and his country went through, McNamara structures the film with 11 lessons pertaining to war as well as life. The lessons are as follows:
1. Empathize with your enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond one's self.
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
The ideas behind the lessons shift after lesson 5. The first lessons are mainly regarding war and how to go about it successfully. The next six lessons pertain to life, and more importantly people in positions of power. He uses these lessons from a reflective standpoint, admitting his mistakes and shows how they can be applied generally to war to bring about a better result. The title Fog of War, in military terms refers to the ambiguity of situational awareness in military operations. The fog is also in front of government officials making the decisions behind war. These officials issue orders that those who are "in country" must follow. We have studied the difference between what those who were in the war and those who ran the politics of the war. That difference is the fog that McNamara faced, and his lessons look to clear that up and aid in future war operations.
1. Empathize with your enemy.
2. Rationality will not save us.
3. There is something beyond one's self.
4. Maximize efficiency.
5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
6. Get the data.
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
10. Never say never.
11. You can't change human nature.
The ideas behind the lessons shift after lesson 5. The first lessons are mainly regarding war and how to go about it successfully. The next six lessons pertain to life, and more importantly people in positions of power. He uses these lessons from a reflective standpoint, admitting his mistakes and shows how they can be applied generally to war to bring about a better result. The title Fog of War, in military terms refers to the ambiguity of situational awareness in military operations. The fog is also in front of government officials making the decisions behind war. These officials issue orders that those who are "in country" must follow. We have studied the difference between what those who were in the war and those who ran the politics of the war. That difference is the fog that McNamara faced, and his lessons look to clear that up and aid in future war operations.
Blog Twelve- LdT
The Fog of War is a documentary that focuses on The United States Secretary of Defense, Robert S. McNamara. McNamara was involved with many historical events in American history including World War II, running Ford Motor Company, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the Vietnam War. Through the film, McNamara narrates the story of Vietnam, which can also pertain to common life. The eleven lessons that McNamara talks about are:
1.Empathize with your enemy
2.Rationality will not save us
3.There's something beyond one's self
4.Maximize efficiency
5.Proportionality should be a guideline in war
6. Get the data
7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong
8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning
9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil
10. Never say never
11. You can't change human nature
McNamara speaks with real honesty in the documentary. There is a clear shift in ideas after the fifth lesson. At first it seems as though it is only about war, however, after the fifth, the lessons turn into everyday life lessons. McNamara admits that he regrets the war, which seems like it is difficult to say because he was the Secretary of Defense and had so much knowledge of what was going on. McNamara really looks at what having power did to America, having been very involved with Ford Motor Company, and being the Secretary of Defense; he had a lot of practice with running big powers. He also knows that just because you are in power does not mean what you are saying is right. He admits in the film that those in power said things that may not have been right, but even they didn’t know what was happening.
McNamara offers his lessons that he learned as a sort of apology to what happened. He is not blaming himself obviously, but he does know that mistakes were made and many people died unreasonably.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)